Which Door Leads to Heaven?

[jdsouza]

[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Heaven[/TD]
[TD]Hell[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Door A[/TD]
[TD]Door B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Angel[/TD]
[TD]Devil[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Your Question - "If I were to ask you if the door on the right leads to heaven, would you say yes?"[/TD]
[TD]Your Question - "If I were to ask you if the door on the right leads to heaven, would you say yes?"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Answer would be "Yes" and you say the opposite is true ![/TD]
[TD]The answer would be "Yes" as the Devil always lies and you say the opposite is true ![/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


Perhaps, you'd like to reconsider your question to the spirit beings?

 

[Oaktree]

Not only is shg's answer valid, it's technically more correct. "What would the other entity (spirit being) say if I asked him, it this is the door that leads to heaven?" assumes that the two entities have knowledge of each other's habits, which is not necessarily guaranteed by the construct of the problem.

Two truths = correct classification of the door. Two (offsetting) lies = also correct classification of the door.

Plus, with shg's answer, you could remove one of the statues entirely and, armed only with the knowledge that the statue either *always* lies or *always* tells the truth, you could pick the right door.

 

[jdsouza]

Entirely entitled to your opinion.

The assumption that both entities (not just those attempting to solve the problem) know about the entity's habits is correct.

Put in the other combinations in the matrix in #11, ask the same question, see if it is conclusive that the opposite is always true. If so, I'm missing something.

 

[Oaktree]

Per #11, think of shg's question in two parts:

We all agree that the demon knows door B leads to hell, but if asked if it leads to heaven, would lie and say "yes"... but, that's not shg's proposed question.

By asking "If I were to ask you... would you say yes" you're missing that this implicitly introduces a second round of questioning. You're not asking whether the door leads to heaven, you're asking the entity to tell you what his *reply* would be. Shg's question would force the demon to lie about the *reply*, thus stating a truthful "no", that the door would indeed lead to hell (or, conversely, a truthful "yes" if it was the door to heaven).

 

[jdsouza]

If only the proposer knew which of the two was the devil.

If the being happened to be the angel ..
"If I were to ask you that this door leads to heaven... would you say yes"
The being's answer would be 'Yes' (if led to heaven). Then, the opposite can't be true. Or can it?

 

[Oaktree]

You don't need to know which one's the devil. With the "If I were to ask..." construct, you'll get a truthful reply whether you ask the demon or the angel.

Door A (Heaven Door)
Without the "If I were to ask..." construct, Angel would say it's heaven. Would also *say* he'd say it was heaven (this is where the "If I were to ask you" construct comes in to play), so you know it's heaven
Without the construct, Devil would say it's hell. With the construct, he would *say* he'd say it was heaven, so you know it's heaven.

Door B (Hell Door)
Without the construct, Angel would say it's hell. With the construct, he would also *say* he'd say it was hell, so you know it's hell
Without the construct, Devil would say it's heaven. With the construct, he would *say* he'd say it was hell, so you know it's hell

 

[BenMiller]

Simply put, shg makes it a double negative - or a double positive - which means that you will always get the correct answer.

This assumes that the devil lies for the sake of lying, and not for the greater sake of evil; or he's really stupid. Because if he gets such a ridiculous question from you, surely he'd think to himself for a bit and see what you're up to. So either he's stupid and doesn't realize your intentions, or he is more devoted to lying than to being evil (and making you end up in hell). In which case he is not the devil, and is merely a lying machine incapable of judgement.

 

[jdsouza]

I had responded, but it seems to have disappeared.

Will wait a bit and re-post.

 

[jdsouza]

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Heaven[/TD]
[TD]Hell[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Heaven[/TD]
[TD]Hell[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Door A[/TD]
[TD]Door B[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Door A[/TD]
[TD]Door B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Angel[/TD]
[TD]Devil[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Devil[/TD]
[TD]Angel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Hell[/TD]
[TD]Heaven[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Hell[/TD]
[TD]Heaven[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Door A[/TD]
[TD]Door B[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Door A[/TD]
[TD]Door B[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Angel[/TD]
[TD]Devil[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Devil[/TD]
[TD]Angel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[TD]If I were to ask you if the this door leads to heaven, would you say yes?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]No[/TD]
[TD]Yes[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


The above shows that "the opposite" is not true.

When the 'would you say yes' in the question above is used as a quoted response - 'would you say, "Yes"?, then the answer indicates if the door leads to heaven if the answer is "yes".

If the 'would you say yes' is used in the context of 'would you agree?' it becomes inconclusive.

Therefore, not a shorter or better solution. Therefore my comment - 'nearly there'.

 

[BenMiller]

If the 'would you say yes' is used in the context of 'would you agree?' it becomes inconclusive.

I've never heard "would you say yes" used in that context. Then again, I don't hang out with angels and devils too often.