Stamp Debate

[BenMiller]

I concur with Xenou. And after a court would be done trying to show the hard way on how to be responsible for your actions, one might want to ask themselves: Am I sorry I caused this other person harm? Or am I just sorry that I had to pay?

Those questions might reveal the condition of one's own heart towards others...

BTW "Honest Abe" now has his picture on all our pennies.

This isn't a moral debate! Whether or not the perpetrator should go to prison is not the issue. Remember, this question will still apply if the action was done by mistake, the same way I pay when I hit your car in a complete accident. This is a financial obligation question, which should not be judged based on the damager's remorse for his actions, overall character, or honesty...

 

[Jonmo1]

Take the stamp analogy to it's logical (but not impossible) extreme. The victim could quite conceivably have purchased the original stamps for 5 cents each. If purchase price is all that matters, does that mean the compensation is only 5 cents ? This seems unfair.

Who ever said life was fair?

I don't think it would be fair for me to have to pay 50k for something you only paid 5 cents for.
5 cents is all you actually lost, because you never had the 50k it was potentially worth.
It's only worth 50k if another party actually gives you 50k in exchange for the stamp.
This isn't a sale.
It is also potentially worhless, because you might accidentally lose or destroy it yourself before you get a change to sell it and actually possess the 50k.

 

[BenMiller]

Who ever said life was fair?

I don't think it would be fair for me to have to pay 50k for something you only paid 5 cents for.
5 cents is all you actually lost, because you never had the 50k it was potentially worth.
It's only worth 50k if another party actually gives you 50k in exchange for the stamp.
This isn't a sale.
It is also potentially worhless, because you might accidentally lose or destroy it yourself before you get a change to sell it and actually possess the 50k.

So a person's worth is calculated only with cash in the bank; everything else is "potential worth"? That doesn't seem right ... idk

And the fact that I may accidentally lose it or destroy it should have no bearing whatsoever on the amount the damager pays.

I possess an object valued at $50,000 + you destroyed that object = you damaged me in the amount of $50,000.

 

[chuckchuckit]

Ah yes... but it is a moral problem, or no court would be needed. I'll repeat my first answer that still applies:

This is all about being responsible for your actions.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Modern day trick is: If you can get people to talk long enough about “the logic” of why it is OK to be harmful because of “the benefits” of causing harm, you no longer are responsible for doing whatever harm you want.
<o></o>
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time…

 

[Gerald Higgins]

Who ever said life was fair?

You're right, life isn't always fair.

But I think one purpose of this whole discussion is to try and determine what "fair" actually is.

For me, if the purchase price and replacement price happen to be widely different either way, then replacement price (including incidental costs of replacement) should be the most important consideration.

Here's another thought. Although the victim may never have "had" the $50,000 value of the stamp, the fact that it was generally considered to be worth $50,000 may have reasonably affected their behaviour towards it. For example, they may have arranged expensive security for it. Or expensive display or archiving arrangements. These are not unreasonable things to do, and getting only 5 cents compensation again seems unfair. Of course, in real life, such a person would have arranged insurance as well, if they had any sense.

 

[Jonmo1]

I possess an object valued at $50,000 + you destroyed that object = you damaged me in the amount of $50,000.

All other posessions and monies aside...

Can you go to the bank and make a $50,000 withdrawl?
Or pull out $50,000 in cash from under your matress?
I think not.

So I only damaged you in the amount that you purchased the object for.

 

[BenMiller]

What's the difference how I could get the money from this? I could easily sell it and get the cash value; that's what makes it worth what it is worth.

 

[Jonmo1]

What's the difference how I could get the money from this? I could easily sell it and get the cash value; that's what makes it worth what it is worth.

That's my point, it's only worth that amount IF you sell it.
But you didn't sell it.

 

[BenMiller]

That's my point, it's only worth that amount IF you sell it.
But you didn't sell it.

Interesting article on that point ... both sides are mentioned http://bit.ly/IRGvna

 

[Jonmo1]

Interesting article on that point ... both sides are mentioned http://bit.ly/IRGvna

Thanks, now I look like my avatar


All I'm saying is I don't think it's fair to either the victim or the perpetrator (and yes, the perpetrator has rights too).
To value a thing based on a potential future value.
Because we can't see into the future.
Just because it's appraised at 50k, doesn't mean you can actually sell it for 50k.
You have to find someone who wants it, and also agrees that it's worth 50k.

It will take some time to actually sell it.
And anything can happen in the future to change the value of the thing.

You don't think you can just walk to a pawn shop and get 50k for it that day do you?
Or even an antiques dealer, or a stamp dealer.
They are not going to give you 50k.
They are going to give you considerably less, so that they can sell it for 50k and make a profit.

In order to get the full 50k, you have to sell it direct to the person that wants it.
That will take time (and money, travel expenses) to find that person.
And it will likely take time for that person to actually come up with the 50k.

The buyer's going to want it appraised...

All kinds of stuff can go wrong so that you can't actually get the 50k.