Spoonfeeding

[Legacy 12630]

We can choose ....... to help people out, even if it means being efficient and directing them toward a post that will answer their question. (From my experience it also takes time to "remeber that post" and find it...)

Well, not really. It doesn't take a feat of memory to do a search of this board, or Excel Help, or VBE Help, or MS Knowledge Base, or use the macro recorder, etc.

I believe that a lot of help is sought because the help seeker is either not aware of the sources available for finding a solution him(her)self, or doesn't know how to make use of those sources.

 

[Smitty]

Well, not really. It doesn't take a feat of memory to do a search of this board, or Excel Help, or VBE Help, or MS Knowledge Base, or use the macro recorder, etc.

Very true. Many people don't know about the resources that they have available to them in the first place and are often amazed when they stumble across MrExcel, often as a last resort to a hair pulling problem.

Hair-pulling to them, but often as simple as "Try the Macro Recorder, then ALT+F11, Bob."

Sure, some people will try to take advantage of the great work that everyone here gives, just like they do in the real world.

Does that mean that you just give up?

 

[NateO]

So, I suppose the board should be changed from "help board" to Help if you pay for it, lectures if you don't.

I don't quite agree... While understanding you’re being facetious.

In my posts, I try to address the specific question, whether it's a functional solution or an example that I think is close enough to at least get the dialogue moving in the right direction.

I agree with you 100% El Gringo, some people simply want an answer with no real desire to understand what premises lead them to the conclusion, not how I choose to operate, but we're all individuals and I can accept that. But.... (always a qualifier with me), when the task is somewhat complex, I do find it difficult to take an interest when the individual/group with the problem (typically not my problem in all reality) doesn't take an interest... I do typically enjoy when people ask me why or more detail for my understanding please, and will attempt to entertain this type of discussion.

I don't worry as much about the solution please, knowledge need not apply, seeker in most cases however, that's the beauty of a public board, it's reservoir of knowledge for others who either:

a) Also simply want a solution
b) Want to learn

I'm not arguing that my posts are of the highest quality, but those posts that are very good, well, they're a gift that keeps giving.

I try to answer the question fairly directly, if the OP wants to learn or not is up to them, you can't force-feed knowledge/understanding, but a presentaion of a technical approach to a specific quandary, which others may have, will lead to knowledge base for everyone to build on. My two cents.

 

[Smitty]

For what it worth Nate,

I'm not arguing that my posts are of the highest quality, but those posts that are very good, well, they're a gift that keeps giving.

I'm always "wow'd" by your posts. ray:

I've used a lot of your stuff and have been able to to give some of it back on occasion. (Esp. with Lotus Notes!) So yes, it does keep giving...And that is the beauty of a public forum.

With regards to those who "just want the answer", I think most folks here are pretty good at encouraging some modicum of learning along the way.

I know I've learned a great deal and I'd also love to "have all the answers".

Thanks to all.

Smitty

 

[just_jon]

A lot of good points here. In a perfect world all the OP's would be wanting a good solution that they could A] understand and learn from, and B] use again in other work, perhaps even adapting it to changing requirements themselves. But who are we kidding? True, you *do* find those people from time to time; but you also get the lazy kid who waited until the night before an assignment was do (usually unmasked by the "URGENT! PLEASE HELP!" in the topic) as well as the poor guy whose boss just dumped a project in his lap and told him to get it done - he might not have a bunch of spare time to wrestle with the "why" of an answer. But we all get a chance to choose who we want to help, although from the initial post may it may not be clear how committed to learning the OP might be. There are also people who post whom you may have come across before, so you know what you're in for before you start.

What gets me are the threads which start out: "I need to copy x in book2 to y in book1."; you find an answer you feel comfortable with and post it. Then the OP comes back: "Sorry. That didn't work. Let me tell you what I really want to do..." And you're off on a whole different ballgame.

Rant/rave/grip/etc... but you'll notice I'm still here, and do miss it when I cannot be.

Edit: For a grin, see Tom's comment toward the end of this thread: http://www.mrexcel.com/board2/viewtopic.php?t=59938

 

[Joe4]

Just to add in my two cents...

If it is something that is a little involved or complicated, I usually try to provide an explanation. If they are looking for an explanation, then they have it. If not, they can choose to ignore it.

From my own personal standpoint, I like to have an explanation of how things work when I ask questions. And even if the person asking isn't interested in the explanation, someone else reading the post may be.

Hence, my signature line...

 

[Todd Bardoni]

How could someone NOT learn from just an answer? I mean, any answer an OP gets, whether its JUST an answer or an explanation of the answer is still going to teach the OP something. Even if the OP learns that he can come to this board for his queries is still learning.

*Sigh* Sometimes we debate the stupidest things.

BTW, I'm the one that voted, "Don't really care."

Sorry if my apathy offends you...wait a minute, actually I don't care.

 

[kskinne]

i think it is possible for some to walk away from this board with answer in hand and not learn anything new. sometimes all an OP has to do is copy and paste the answer supplied to them where someone tells them to paste it, and their problem is solved. meanwhile they have no idea why all of a sudden their workbook 'works', they just know that for some reason it does...

maybe another announcement can be added to the announcements sections, directing the user to 'read this first' or something like that...perhaps give them a short list of a few things to try before they post their question, such as mentioned in a previous post:

doing a search of the board for a previous answer
checking Excel/VBA help first
checking the MSKB
using the macro recorder
etc...

maybe they don't take advantage of these resources first because it never dawned on them to try this first, or they didn't know the resource was available. regardless, if this announcement helped them find the answer they were looking for so that they didn't need to post, I'm sure everyone would be happy

ultimately, i personally think that how much help you give someone depends on each individual circumstance, but unfortunately over the web it can be very difficult to guage how much help a person really 'needs'

kevin

 

[Von Pookie]

maybe another announcement can be added to the announcements sections, directing the user to 'read this first' or something like that...perhaps give them a short list of a few things to try before they post their question, such as mentioned in a previous post:

doing a search of the board for a previous answer
checking Excel/VBA help first
checking the MSKB
using the macro recorder
etc...

maybe they don't take advantage of these resources first because it never dawned on them to try this first, or they didn't know the resource was available. regardless, if this announcement helped them find the answer they were looking for so that they didn't need to post, I'm sure everyone would be happy

Actually, that would be the announcement that already exists and is entitled "Posting tips and general information." It originally had a bit about 'read before posting' to it, but didn't seem to do any good. I guess I would assume with a title like that, people would read it first.

And Juan has added the information from that post to the board FAQ as well.

The problem lies, however, in the fact that many people don't bother to search or even read things labeled "Please read before posting." They just post their question and get on with it.

 

[Iridium]

I suppose its something I've done in the past when i first joined the board and all I wanted was the answers to MY xl problems which were obviously the most important (!) (PaddyD sent me straight without any messing about!) but now that I've been here a while I don't see any value in just giving answers - first principles is the best solution. I realise many users don't know where to get help from in the first place but as has been stated many times before - read the FAQ, RTFM (how many question's solutions are in the xl help!?), do a search (message board, MS KB, Google) etc etc.