Mathematics is NOT a Universal Language

[Jonmo1]

If you have ten of something and add another ten, you will have twenty. Regardless of what language or symbols you use, the actual number of objects is not different because of the language or symbols used. You would never have 19 objects because you used a different language or symbols.

The same is true of English.
If both parties must learn the language and it's rules, then if the speaker says "I'm Hungry", then the listener would never hear "Jelly Fish"

 

[Jonmo1]

From Post #6 in the same thread on the other forum

Now that I can agree with. Anyone/Everyone will have a need to use Math. That makes sense.

I still think Universal is the wrong word for it though....I'm pondering what the correct word would be..

 

[mole999]

English is not good to cite, consider

To, Too & Two

You Are, Your, Your'e, Yaw

it easy for us to be confused

Lead (to escort forward / a base metal)

Or the confusion over Cinderellas Glass Slipper, which failed to make the transition from Fur in the original French

 

[Jonmo1]

What's you're point?

English is not good to cite, consider

To, Too & Two <- I see 3 distinctly different words

You Are, Your, Your'e, Yaw <- I see 5 distinctly different words, one of which(Your'e) is not in the English language

it easy for us to be confused

Lead (to escort forward / a base metal) <-Context, another rule that must be known.

All languages, even Math, have similar looking words/symbols. All languages, even math, have rules to follow.

If a speaker says one thing, but the listener hears something different, then they are not speaking the same language.
A common argument used to support Math as Universal.
If 2 people get different answers from the same problem, then one of them is not speaking math correctly.

 

[Joe4]

I still think Universal is the wrong word for it though....I'm pondering what the correct word would be..

So what we are really talking about here is semantics. That's a slippery slope I do not wish to go down. Just ask Bill Clinton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0

From Post #6 in the same thread on the other forum

But are the rules for Cross-Posting the same in all forums!

 

[mole999]

If a speaker says one thing, but the listener hears something different, then they are not speaking the same language.

To, Too & Two, you must be tonally pitch perfect, they sound the same to me, its only their context that separates them out

 

[Jonmo1]

But are the rules for Cross-Posting the same in all forums!

But not so strictly enforced here as they are over on that other forum.

To, Too & Two, you must be tonally pitch perfect, they sound the same to me, its only their context that separates them out

Right, Context.
It's a rule that needs to be followed when speaking English.
Just like order of operations is a rule that needs to be followed in Math.
All languages have them, so I see Math as no different from (no more Universal than) English in that regard.

 

[J.Ty.]

Mathematics is not a universal language, because it is not a language at all. Mathematics is one of the sciences. Certain parts of mathematics are considered to be truly universal. It is widely believed, that any civilization (on Earth or elsewhere) that starts dealing with mathematical thinking, will eventually discover the concept of prime numbers, the constants PI() and EXP(1) (here written in Excel's notations), etc.


Of course, there must be a language, which is used to express mathematical statements. Its construction and principles are very much the matter of convention, and it is to some extent external to the mathematics itself. The one we use on Earth is rather uniform in its basics, but still permits a lot of diversity. E.g., in my home country we use the decimal comma, while most of the readers here use the decimal point instead.


The initial puzzle of 2+2*2+2 is an example of an expression, whose meaning depends on the conventions of dealing with operations witout explicitly declared order of operations. The answer to this problem is the common idea of providing a proof for mathematical statements.


So for me any of the statements
2+2*2+2 = (2+2)*(2+2) = 16
2+2*2+2 = (2+(2*2))+2 = 8
2+2*2+2 = ((2+2)*2)+2 = 10
is perfectly correct, providing the value and the way it was achieved. If it is not what I expected, it is due to a misunderstanding, but not a mistake.

 

[mole999]

Languages adjust and evolve

I used x and ÷ when at school, then these computer people came along and changed the convention to be represented as * and /. The principle is sound, but the language changed

 

[DocAElstein]

Mathematics is not a universal language, because it is not a language at all. Mathematics is one of the sciences. Certain parts of mathematics are considered to be truly universal. It is widely believed, that any civilization (on Earth or elsewhere) that starts dealing with mathematical thinking, will eventually discover the concept of prime numbers, the constants PI() and EXP(1) (here written in Excel's notations), etc.
.......
So for me any of the statements
2+2*2+2 = (2+2)*(2+2) = 16
2+2*2+2 = (2+(2*2))+2 = 8
2+2*2+2 = ((2+2)*2)+2 = 10
is perfectly correct, providing the value and the way it was achieved. If it is not what I expected, it is due to a misunderstanding, but not a mistake.

One of my New Year’s resolutions is: I am going to use a lot more Brackets ( Parenthesis, Parens ) from now on. That seems to be almost universally understood. I hope that does not irritate too much. If anyone asks why I will just refer them to this Thread.
Alan

P.s.
Maybe some Mathematics ( Maths ) experts can suggest some other ideas to help making both mathematical code lines ( or any other code lines for that matter ) more universally readable... Extra use of Brackets ( Parenthesis, Parens ) seems a good idea,.. to me! Maybe a few extra empty spaces as well helps sometimes, colours , like the MrExcel Screen shot tools does in formulas can also help.
..___ o00o__`(_)`___o00o__..
..(__ (2+__(2*2)_)__+2_)..
Not relying on the Implicit, could also be a good new resolution , IMHO, even for some experts..
P.P.s.
( I guess maybe VBA, though, is a language, and un______in that? ( not universally understood…so maybe not universal… maybe unequivocal…

Definition of "Universal" in the Collins dictionary :"(esp of a language) capable of being used and understood by all"........

..VBA has only been written in English, so there is no confusion in what is meant, if you have understood the single set ( one language version as yet ) of Rules for interpretation. Even, the different __ , __ .__ ;__ \ __ conventions in Excel are not apparent in VBA, but they always seem to give problems when interacting with the Sheets, ( at least as far as I know with Worksheets ( Spreadsheets ) . I wonder why they did not just do Excel in English: I guess they just did not think they would get away with forcing non English users to use Excel in English ?