humans - computers

[iknowu99]

Hi Lenze
When is your bday? stored in RAM quickly found and retrieved...
Daughter's bday? same
Abe Lincoln's bday? search C:\
Erik's bday? look in "my computer", nothing found >> just like the brain >> i would ask myself, do i know erik? i know a few eriks from before, is this erik one of them - no, are there any possible clues as to figuring out his bday - no, are you sure he's never mentioned it before - pretty sure. etc....these questions don't end for a human - with time one can find out Erik's bday; it seems like that's the only difference. Because a PC can only look through the local harddrives for the answer - but perhaps the computer can search the internet and etc - and the questions will not end as well.

Computers are conditional thinking - humans are unconditional....or... wait are humans unconditional? if green go, if red stop, if 7 am go to work, if 6pm turn on tv for news, if etc etc.... EDIT: and put a big for loop around it

or does human instinct favor the unconditional thinking? this way the humans can rely on computers for conditinal thinking and relax and enjoy instinct behavior





please keep the votes coming!

 

[Cbrine]

What about these qualifiers?
Abe Licoln's birthday? A data search? How many Abe Licoln's are there? We know which one lenze was talking about, but a computer won't?
Same issue with Erik's birthday? Which Erik? Again using fuzzy logic we infer that lenze is talking about our Erik here at Mr Excel, a computer can't make that leap.

The terminators will never rule the Earth!!!!

 

[iknowu99]

I am suggesting the opposite of Lenze's "i know what i don't know" for constructive argument's sake. I am suggesting there is human doubt. And a computer knows for sure - found or not found. I wish Erik would watch Matrix; it's a movie and I am interested in your opinion. I suggest a positive idea of the matrix will evolve. People want to be in an imaginary world - sorta like now one might be in front of a PC, intrigued by a reflection in the monitor for long long periods of time!

 

[Lewiy]

I suggest a positive idea of the matrix will evolve. People want to be in an imaginary world - sorta like now one might be in front of a PC, intrigued by a reflection in the monitor for long long periods of time!

People already immerse themselves in an imaginary world, they're called video games and already we see that some of the most popular (Grand Theft Auto, Final Fantasy, online RPG's, etc.) are ones which contain a "world" in which the player can "live" for hours of their lives. But all this does not mean that the computer controls your experience. The immersion you experience when playing is an entirely human creation.

Now if a computer could design and distribute a game world which humans find pleasurable, that would really be something, but I don't think it's ever gonna happen.

 

[litrelord]

Most of our decisions aren’t just based on what is correct though. It’s down to our moods. How many times have you questioned whether to buy something that you know you can’t really afford but gone ahead anyway, or stayed out for that one last drink, gone to a show when you know you have to be up early etc

We make all these choices, despite the fact that following the strict risk/reward logic we shouldn’t because they bring us pleasure. That’s something that a machine will never know. Unless we program in pleasure and pain and manage to emulate it but why would we want to do that. I can’t think of anything worse than pressing a button only to be told by my PC that it was hooked up to some female PC over in another country all night and subsequently will be performing at half speed today until it’s recovered.

Nick

 

[gingerafro]

I can’t think of anything worse than pressing a button only to be told by my PC that it was hooked up to some female PC over in another country all night and subsequently will be performing at half speed today until it’s recovered.

Reminds me of Kryten getting double polaroids after reading a magazine about washing machines on Red Dwarf.

 

[iknowu99]

Hey Nick, what you comment on is the exact reason i suggest having a computer. wouldn't it be great for the computer to schedule the optimal plan for the day for you? i mean, based on the given resources the PC would figure out the best method. Like buying something you can't afford. If you can't afford it then you simply don't have the money for it?! I want a spaceship because I want to check out the moon but i can't afford it. Perhaps the material things you call, "can't afford" are affordable and just need someone to compute what is being sacrificed. Ever make the bad decision of staying out late? uhh - yes. but i don't regret it!! i can't because i made the decision consciously. I knew what I was doing and it was a choice. Maybe a computer would compute to how late one can go to and still not miss work - be ok the next day.

 

[litrelord]

But the knowledge of individual emotions and moods is surely impossible to calculate without giving it all the information you currently have in your brain. I should go home but I'm having fun so i want to stay out. If I stay out it will be good but a particular person is out as well I always get stuck talking to them so maybe I shouldn't. What work do i have on the next day. How alert will I need to be tomorrow morning first thing? etc etc. Too many variables.

Logically I should go home. There's (hopefully) always another night that will be just as good.

It's either moving the computers thinking away from pure logic or trying to apply logic to emotion.

If you apply logic to emotion you can't have love. that's the most illogical feeling you can ever have. The things you'd do for someone you love just defy explanation. and if we did manage to get the whole process written down and explained exactly so there was no mystery anymore - well that would be worse in my mind. I like having some things that can't be explained.

Nick

 

[iknowu99]

Oh yes! too many variables...but that phrase suggests there are finite variables....and even when infinite >> wouldn't a computer prioritize more appropriate?

the rest i agree on but still not sure what humans want...

 

[litrelord]

wouldn't a computer prioritize more appropriate?

No I don't think it would. Because a lot of decisions I make may change many times as I try and make up my mind which priority i'm giving each of the items involved. x may be a bigger priority than y but I might reverse that decision before I come up with an answer and you'd have to tell the computer each time you re-prioritised or telling it once and be stuck with that decision. You're the only person who knows your individual priorities at that precise moment.