Rounding oddity

Spacewalker

New Member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
18
The weirdest thing is happening ...

In my table, I'm running a quick if/then calc to confirm if the sum of the values in one column equals the sum of values in another column. For some reason I keep getting a negative answer.
It turns out there appears to be a rounding issue, as you can see from the screenshot. All the values in the highlighted column are 0.1. The sum of these is 6.9, which is the sum of the values in the other column.
There is no doubt about that. You can see how I increased the decimal.... it's all 0.1
Yet, in Excel's sum, the result is 6.899999...

What is going on?

Px8IaoK.png
[/IMG]
 

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This is a common anomaly of 64-bit binary floating-point, which is what Excel uses to represent numbers and perform arithmetic. In a nutshell, the problem arises because most decimal fractions cannot be represented exactly. That is why, for example, IF(10.1 - 10 = 0.1, TRUE) returns FALSE(!).

(I can provide much more detail on request.)

The work-around: =ROUND(SUM(A1:A69),1)

Change 1 decimal place to whatever degree of accuracy that you expect; usually the most number of decimal places in your data (input).

In general, whenever you expect a calculation to be accurate to some number of decimal places, explicitly round to that number of decimal places -- and not to an arbitrary number (e.g. 10), as some people suggest. For example, IF(ROUND(10.1 - 10, 1) = 0.1, TRUE) returns TRUE, as expected.

PS: The SUM value in the Status Bar cannot be forced to round, however.
 
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PS.... There is some hinky about your image. Of course, you do not show all 69 rows in A1:A69. That's fine. But what you show (33 rows, by my "count") has only 29 values: 0.1 repeated in blocks of 7, 7, 5, 7 and 3, separated by one empty row Even if A34:A69 contained 0.1 without empty rows, how can their sum be 6.9 (rounded)?

The answer is moot, if you are satisfied with my previous explanation.

But I will need to see all of the data, if you want more details. Instead of an image, it would be better (for me) if you upload an example Excel that demonstrates the problem to a file-sharing website like box.net/files.
 
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Thanks.
Yes, I figured out I'd need to use ROUND, but I was (still am) perplexed, If I type zero point one, why is Excel worrying about a faraway decimal?

What I actually have is a calculation: 1.0*0.10=0.10[TABLE="width: 403"]
<colgroup><col><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD]1.0[/TD]
[TD]0.10[/TD]
[TD]0.10[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
Perhaps it's the multiplication that "adds" decimals?

Anyway, not a big deal. I know how to use excel, but how it works "inside" is above my intelligence. :grin:
 
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What I actually have is a calculation: 1.0*0.10=0.10[.] Perhaps it's the multiplication that "adds" decimals?

It is important to provide examples that actually demonstrate the problem. 1*0.1 does not cause any problems. But 1.5*0.1 does.

In general, any arithmetic (not just multiplication) with decimal fractions or that results in decimal fractions can present problems.

Excel per se does not worry about the "faraway decimals". But we should.

That is why I wrote: whenever you expect a calculation to be accurate to some number of decimal places, explicitly round to that number of decimal places.

I do not recommend setting the Precision As Displayed option, for many reasons.

But if you want to experiment with it, be sure to save a copy of the Excel file before setting the option. One of the dangers of setting PAD in an existing Excel file is: PAD might change some constants permanently, and any adverse effect is irreversible.

-----

Briefly, problems arise because most decimal fractions cannot be represented exactly in 64-bit binary floating-point, which is what Excel uses internally to represent numbers.

For example, 0.1 is actually 0.100000000000000,0055511151231257827021181583404541015625 .

(I use period for the decimal point and comma to demarcate the first 15 significant digits.)

Moreover, the approximation of a particular decimal fraction often depends on the magnitude of the number [1].

For example, 10.1 is actually 10.0999999999999,996447286321199499070644378662109375 . Consequently, IF(10.1 - 10 = 0.1, TRUE) returns FALSE(!) because 10.1 - 10 is actually 0.0999999999999996,447286321199499070644378662109375.

Confusion due to these "standard" side-effects is compounded by other behaviors that are specific to Excel.

For example, Excel displays (not "stores") only up to the first 15 significant digits (rounded). So, sometimes we cannot see the "faraway decimals".

For example, if A1 has the formula =1.5*0.1, that appears to be 0.150000000000000 (15 fractional digits). But it is actually 0.150000000000000,02220446049250313080847263336181640625 .

(The IEEE 754 standard requires displaying up to 17 significant digits in order to convert between binary and decimal representations with no loss of precision.)

And Excel has implemented some work-arounds in an attempt to hide some of the "standard" side-effects. But the work-arounds are applied inconsistently.

For example, IF(A1 = 0.15, TRUE) returns TRUE because the "=" operator rounds both operands to 15 significant digits. But MATCH(0.15,A1,0) returns #N/A, indicating no match, because MATCH compares the exact binary values.

Setting PAD only affects the value stored in cells.

For example, if A1 is formatted as Number with 1 decimal place, =1.5*0.1 becomes the exact binary representation of 0.15. Thus, MATCH(0.15,A,0) would return 1, indicating a match.

But MATCH(1.5*10,A1,0) would return #N/A, indicating no match. And ironically, MATCH(1.5*10,A1,0) returns 1 when PAD is not set.


-----
[1] The approximation of a decimal fraction depends on the magnitude of the number because 64-bit binary floating-point represents numbers by the sum of 53 consecutive powers of two, the largest of which depends on the magnitude.

For example:

Rich (BB code):
 0.1 = 1*2^(-4) + 1*2^(-5) + 0*2^(-6) +...+ 0*2^(-47) + 1*2^(-48) + 1*2^(-49) + 0*2^(-50) +...+ 0*2^(-54) + 1*2^(-55) + 0*2^(-56)

10.1 = 1*2^3 + 0*2^2 + 1*2^1 + 0*2^0 + 0*2^(-1) + 0*2^(-2) + 0*2^(-3) + 1*2^(-4) + 1*2^(-5) +...+ 0*2^(-47) + 1*2^(-48) + 1*2^(-49)

As you can see, 10.1 includes part of the approximation of 0.1 from 1*2^(-4) through 1*2^(-49). But we lose the part of the approximation that includes 1*2^(-52) through 1*2^(-55). That is, we lose precision.
 
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