# Am I thinking right?



## jim may (Nov 8, 2008)

Just saw this (Typical) type message from someone/somewhere who has Excel in their office.  And probably, there isn't anyone in the office that has needed experience to perform their request (that's plenty of offices in the world, I'm sure).

Anyway, here's my gripe (concern?).  I make my living performing Excel Tasks/applications, automating office routines, etc...
All to often this site and others ends up be "Application Central" for freeloaders wanting something-for-nothing, a sort of welfare state mentality.
And it ticks me off.  Before saying any more, is there a consensus among the group here on this subject?  If so, I'd like to hear it.

Jim May

Here's the message:

Sending data from multiple sheets to one master sheet 

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Hi there,

I'm trying to do something that's probably way over my head, but here goes.

We have several people filling in a copy of the same spreadsheet all day and are hoping that there's a way to transfer the data to a master spreadsheet in some automated manner without having to copy and paste it on a daily basis. 

I'm assuming that if it is possible, it would involve VB, which I've yet to use but have used other languages and am eager to give it a shot. I'd be really grateful if anyone point me in the right direction. 

Thanks


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## Marbles (Nov 8, 2008)

If you don't want to help, then don't.  This site is here to help people with their problems, without asking anything in return.  If only a small proportion of those who get some benefit from their questions go on to use, and learn from the site, and try to help when they can, there can't be anything wrong with that.  An added bonus, is that when someone has been helped by an answer to what maybe a simple question, they'll probably be the first to help anyone with the same problem.


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## Joe4 (Nov 8, 2008)

This is site is all about the "sharing" of information and helping others.  I know that on numerous occassions, we have even helped consultants such as yourself, with projects that they get paid for (and we don't even ask for any of the money they are getting paid!)

I understand where you are coming from, but you also need to consider that many small offices do not have the budget to hire consultants to do things for them (especially in the current economic climate).  And who in their right mind would pay for something that they think they may be able to get for free?

Personally, I am more apt to help someone who is making an earnest effort to try to learn/do the project themselves and needs some guidance, or just has a simple question.  I see many posts where it is evident that the person has a big project, and really has no desire to learn it or do it themselves.  Usually, I will not reply to those requests, or if I do, I will try to steer them in the direction of hiring a consultant to do it for them.


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## DonkeyOte (Nov 8, 2008)

Hi Jim.  Echoing Joe4 - at the end of the day there's no obligation here for anyone to answer anything they don't want to and for that reason I think the general consensus has always been to simply ignore those posts that irk you.

Have a read through the variety of answers below -- I think there's probably one or two attempted thread-hijacks in there (being a Lounge thread'n'all) but  some good points made etc...

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243542


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## jim may (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks guys  It's just that after 4 years on contant banging on this product, I have all the scares (which represent my pain in learning what I now know), plus sometimes it is just a bad day on top of that - and you have some free loader who doesn't want to se "soiled" with the dirtiness of actually learning....

Oh Well - Thanks again !!


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## MorganO (Nov 8, 2008)

When I originally joined this board about 2 years ago I would assist any poster with any question I had reasonable experience with, partially to help me learn more about Excel and also to assist someone in need.  

But recently I've shied away from these 'build my application' questions in partly due to the afore mentioned thread but also because of the lack of appreciation from the majority of these requesters.  Most people with simple issues will respond back to a solution with thanks, but the larger the issue the less thanks I seem to get.  Maybe I'm just not that good at building apps!

My 2 cents.

Owen


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## Domski (Nov 8, 2008)

There's generally a couple of posts a day asking pretty much exactly the same as the example you gave. To be honest I generally ignore them as the person has either not bothered to do a search or appears not to have tried to solve the problem themselves. Unfortunately I have less and less time to spend around here these days so really stick to the quick answers and leave the more in depth ones to those with the time and the inclination. As far as people getting paid for the help you give them for free then surely that is probably the case with the majority of posts to some extent so really it comes down to your choice as to the level of help you are willing to give.

Dom


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## jim may (Nov 8, 2008)

Thanks guys for the additional comments -- All of you are expressing the situation BETTER THAN I Did initially.


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## kgkev (Nov 10, 2008)

.  I think I have done a bit of freeloading when I first joined.

just asking how do I do this.

Copy and paste the code given, then a quick thanks.

however when I posted asking for help here http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344468

and my post was not replied to I had a bash my self and got a long way through.

Any help I needed was added to a new thread with smaller questions that were answered quickly with good explaination.  I have learnt ALOT more this way.

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344624
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345105
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344616

My code might not be as clean / effiecient as it would have been with a bit of free loading but I am genuinly please about it.


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## earldunning (Nov 10, 2008)

I started on this site just a few months ago. 
I am fairly proficient in the main excel (formulas, charts, pivot tables, etc.).
I however had no experience in VB and macros but needed to learn about it.

My approach was to record tasks that I needed and then look at the code it created. I then would record multiple macros and put them together. I still asked questions but I learned a lot first and then got stuck on harder things.
*It would be great if responses to basic VB questions on here gave the advice to record a macro for what you want to do and look at the code.* Then come here if you cant figure it out.  

Non VB questions I try to look for people with zero responses and see if i can help. I am seeing though that very very basic things are not being responded to. 
I have seen people ask how to sort or how to calculate years of service. These are very basic things. 
*I believe some are using this board in place of basic Excel help within the application.*

So, I cant blame people for not responding to some. If you answer they will likely come back with more simple questions that basic help should answer. 

just my 2 cents


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## Von Pookie (Nov 10, 2008)

You may also be interested in the points made in this old thread about 'spoonfeeding:'
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57043


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## earldunning (Nov 10, 2008)

Good thread. Thanks Von Pookie!


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## Greg Truby (Nov 10, 2008)

And a big ol' bear hug to Pookie!  I looked for that thread this morning -- I tried using advanced search for "spoonfeeding" with Iridium as the author and didn't find it.  Good job, Pook!


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## Von Pookie (Nov 10, 2008)

Greg Truby said:


> And a big ol' bear hug to Pookie!  I looked for that thread this morning -- I tried using advanced search for "spoonfeeding" with Iridium as the author and didn't find it.  Good job, Pook!



All I did was click the 'search' button that brings up the little dropdown search box and type in 'spoonfeeding.'   I couldn't even remember who started it, I just remembered that title. It comes up as 6-7 or so in the results.


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## Sharon in Denver (Nov 10, 2008)

I'd like to add my experience, if I may.  I don't visit as much as some of you, and am nowhere near the level of expertise as a lot of you.  But several very wonderful people have helped me out of bind and I have been most appreciative.  I have always tried to research my problem first, and communicate what steps I have already taken, so as to show that I'm not looking for a 'handout'.  However, I have seen many who just want the solution without any of the gruntwork.  I've respected the people that have so diplomatically shown links to articles and previous posts that answer the question, as well as those so generous to just give the answer.  

Certainly, I think it would be great if everyone would do their due diligence before asking the great minds here.  However, I can imagine a day when I don't have the time, patience or lack of panic to do that myself, and I will be indebted to the kind soul who just gives me the answer.  

In keeping with Karma, I will do the same, and ask no questions.

Once again, thank all of you who have shared your knowledge and experience with me and all the others who have benefited from this site.  The site and all of you who contribute are an invaluable resource in my toolbelt.  

-S


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## yytsunamiyy (Nov 19, 2008)

Just a quick question:

What's your take on homework posts like this one?

Answer once so its off the radar or just ignore it and hope it will sink?


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## Beezkneez (Nov 19, 2008)

Where I can, I try to discuss approaches, give a partial solution and point the person in the direction to work out the rest, or simply link previous posts asking a similar quesiton that has already been answered.

If the user then needs further guideance, I watch the subscribed threat for further quesitons for a while.  I will put alot more effort into a question where the poster has had an attempt and cant get their formula/macro working properly than someone who gives no indication of having made an attempt themselves.

I saw the post yytsunamiyy mentioned earlier and just passed on by.  

When I see the posts along the lines of:
I have a spreadsheet and I need it to have a button where you click it and the spreadsheet goes into 11 databases, extracts data, validates, constructs a complete graphic dashboard report, makes the coffee and then maps the human genome.  Can someone provide code urgently as I need to submit this today!
I have to resist the urge to reply with, 'Well you're stuffed arent ya?'


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## Lewiy (Nov 20, 2008)

I've recently delved back into the world of "I don't know jack" having had a business need to pick up and learn Access. I forget how hard it is when you just don't know where to start. So, to an extent, I can now sympathise with those who know what they want but have no idea of how to get it. However, thanks to my experience on this board, I am well equipped to understand what I need to ask to get useful answers. It takes time and effort to achieve high levels of competency in ANY application. It's painful, and sometimes you just want to throw a tantrum and ask someone else to just hand you a finished product, but it don't work like that!!!!
Directing back at the original question......if people ask for a full solution to something, they will not get many/any useful answers. Generally I think the board members here don't want to spend THAT much time and effort on something that is not only probably quite complex, but also is very difficult to understand what is really required because the poster doesn't really know HOW it's done. But, on the flip side, as was mentioned earlier, these types of threads can occasionally be picked up by a relative newbie looking for a mini project to hone their skills on.
I think the best attribute that this site has is its volume and range of experience of members. There's something for everyone from the smallest formula to the most complex VBA project. No matter what level you are at, there's almost always someone who can help you and another that you yourself can help.


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## RoryA (Nov 20, 2008)

Lewiy said:


> I think the best attribute that this site has is its volume and range of experience of members. There's something for everyone from the smallest formula to the most complex VBA project. No matter what level you are at, there's almost always someone who can help you and another that you yourself can help.


 
I think you've hit the nail on the head there. There are some things that are not the kind of thing I would ever need to do at work, so I find them interesting and challenging, whereas others might find them too boring to respond to; equally there are some types of question that just make me think "Oh God not again" and walk on by. It's horses for courses and luckily there's a pretty big stable here!


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## Domski (Nov 20, 2008)

rorya said:


> luckily there's a pretty big stable here!


 
Don't tell DonkeyOte!!!


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## riaz (Nov 20, 2008)

As people have been putting in their two cents and two pence worth, I thought I would contribute my two paisa worth too.

When I come across a non VBA question, if I don't know the answer, I try to solve it myself.  Sometimes I find a solution which I give, then I follow the thread to see if the experts have a more elegant solution.  In other words, I am helping myself as well as the OP.

I do steer clear of "do my homework/project/assignment for me" type questions, and I rarely respond to anyone who does not appear to have put in some effort prior to asking, be it a search or a stab at finding a solution.

After all, there are thousands of polite OPs one feels like helping, so the impolite and demanding ones can take a back seat.

I came, I saw, I learned.  I am still learning, and I owe it to this Board to return some of what I know to others in my position.


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## jim may (Nov 20, 2008)

I've been involved with Excel Now for 3 to 4 years (24/7 it seems) trying to CRACK the Excel Model; VBE thing, etc.  For those (like myself) who ACTUALY want to learn, this is the best place on the planet !!!

The Site is viewed (by more and more businesses) as: 1) An Emergency Room (where the Uninsured shows up - WITHOUT CASH, pleading to be "Fixed" so they can return to their Unhealthly life, until the next time they need you.  In this same scenario Hospitals around the world are feeling the strain on their budgets for such.  Another view (of the site) -- It's sort-of-a "Turn-Key Application-Central" to number of others who show up
to save their company (or else their job) hundreds of dollars WITHOUT a dime of investment.

I TRY to make my living performing excel tasks for a fee.  It's difficult enough securing business in my market.  The Gratis nature of this site makes it that much more difficult to secure paying clients, when there is such willingness here to "feed the world".

From another direction I think there is a respect issue, or non-respect issue in performing at this level.  Is there some way I/we can RISE to a higher level of respect than be only known as "the spreadsheet guy" - Yeah, my secretary does all my excel spreadsheets; Why would I need a professional-level type  LOL, LOL

Sorry, but I'm just having a bad hair day, here...  and need to sound off


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## klb (Nov 20, 2008)

Jim,
Here is another take on this subject.

These people may not be freeloaders by nature, just people who have recognized a problem but don't know how to solve it.  They have found this wonderful board filled with experts and are hoping someone can show the way.

What you have in many companies are people given a tool with no training on how to use it.  They know just enough to create simple spreadsheets, enter a few numbers and do simple formulas.  Or someone else has given them a spreadsheet to fill in once a month or once a quarter.  They now know how to use Excel.  A few of these people have realized that there is much more to know but don't know where to start or don't get support from management in their companies to learn more about Excel.

When my boss was interviewing candidates for my replacement, one of the requirements was proficiency in Excel.  Many people claimed to be proficient but were at a loss when she asked if they knew macros or VBA. 

Fortunately a few of us have realized that Excel is much more and have taken the time on our own to learn what Excel can really do.  This board is where I have learned more about Excel than any class that I have ever taken.  I thank everyone for that.  And I try to pay it back by answering some of the questions when I can.  

Would I tackle the question that your post referred to?  No, probably not because I don't have the time.   Would I hope that someone else, who has the time, gives a few simple instructions on how to get started and send them in a direction where they can find an answer?  Of course.

And maybe your unwitting "freeloader" will pay it back by helping someone else in the future.


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## DonkeyOte (Nov 20, 2008)

Let's face it we're all good at some things and not so great at others.
I would be so bold as to say I have a general talent for being a nerd, I enjoy being a nerd, I nerd for hours on end and lose all track of time... for me being a nerd (be it using XL or some other application) is at the very core of my being.  On the other side of the coin I'm hopeless at many, many, many other things: DIY, Cooking, etc... my wife would say I'm useless at anything "useful"... (give or take  )

On that basis if I had a question on say fitting a window and went on a DIY forum would I:

a) know the correct terminology to use in my post ?
b) know the various approaches open to me for the task at hand ?
or even
c) know what many would deem to be the "fundamentals" of DIY itself ?

For me at least somewhat tragically the answer to all of the above would be: No. I would not.

I think all of us here @ MrE have gone into override answering posts at one time or another and perhaps lost sight of the fact that for some OP's using XL comes as naturally to them as fitting a new window does to me (by which I mean not very!).  For them using XL is nothing more than an unwanted side-effect of their job / business... they have no affinity for it nor any desire to become "at one" with it's functionality -- put simply they have an XL "window" to fit and no idea how to do it - they come here to ask for advice from people who do! (seemingly)

I try to remember to cut people some slack every now and then on that basis.

That said if the question is poorly constructed and lacks clarity - well I'm afraid I'm going to avoid that...if you've taken the time to put together a well thought out question and I can answer it I will endeavour to do so.


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## jim may (Nov 20, 2008)

Self-removed from thread notification;
Thanks to all,
Jim


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## riaz (Nov 20, 2008)

Hi Luke

Taking your analogy further, in that case would you try to fit the window yourself (and earn yourself a pane in the posterior!) or would you call in the experts and pay them a fee for doing it properly?

(Not that I'm advocating a fee on this Board, far from it).


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## kgkev (Nov 20, 2008)

I think this is what Jim got upset about. Offering too much advise and putting glazers out business.


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## Greg Truby (Nov 20, 2008)

kgkev said:


> I think this is what Jim got upset about. Offering too much advise and putting glazers out business.


I don't think so. Using Luke's analogy, Jim is upset when Luke goes to a DIY forum and says, "hey, I need to do add a room onto my house. Here are some sketches and rather general specifications for what I want. Could someone please prepare a set of detailed sketches of what the home will look like after the addition, draw up a detailed set of blueprints, provide me with all of the wiring diagrams, an exploded list of needed materials and theirs costs plus some estimates on labor rates? Oh, and I need it by noon tomorrow!"

And then someone actual does all of this for free (granted the quality may be a bit dodgy), but if the requester doesn't know one end of a hammer from the other, it's hard to convince him he should go to a professional.


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## klb (Nov 20, 2008)

Sometimes it is in how it is said and the mood of the person reading it:

Can you do this for me?

or

Can you point me in the right direction so I can learn to do it myself?


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## yytsunamiyy (Nov 20, 2008)

To throw my 2 Euro cents into the ring (while trying to avoid any real, virtual or metaphysical windows), I am extremly greatful for the help and teaching I have received here from the very beginning. Kenneth solved a problem for me a while back where I am still looking at the code work but just can't get my head around what it is actually doing. It's working just fine, I just don't get the how (yet  ). 
So, while I see Jim's point personally I am very greatful for being spoonfed every once in a while. That particular code Kenneth wrote might have cost me a bundle if I had had to pay for it, or taken ages to produce for myself (not that my code would have been anywhere close to as elegant or efficient...).

From the point of view of somebody who tries to help ppl I have to say I use a different approach to different OPs.

- simple question, OP is clearly just after a quick answer but polite and problem is clearly stated: Spoonfeed with hints of how it works, maybe OP gets interested in XL and comes to want to learn

- simple question, OP clearly just after a quick answer but impolite or problem is not clearly stated: Depending of the mood of the day just spoonfeed working on best guess (extremly good mood), make comment about clarification / politeness without giving any help (reasonable mood), ignore completely (fairly bad mood) or get seriously pissed and vow to never ever read a thread started by that poster again (seriously bad hair day)

- Challenging question that allows me to play and learn and feeds my inner nerd, OP is  polite and problem is clearly stated: spend time and effort trying to help and maybe learn a few tricks from the gurus when they post their solutions

- Challenging question that allows me to play and learn and feeds my inner nerd, OP is  polite but problem is not clearly stated: spend time and effort trying to help and at least clarify the question

- Challenging question that might allow me to play and learn and feeds my inner nerd, OP is  impolite and problem is not clearly stated: Don't waste my time

- Question that is way over my head: if I think the future might hold a situation where I can learn from the problem and the solutions are from the gurus here ----> BOOKMARK IT! otherwise: slink away with my tail between my legs

- Homework questions: If asked politely (and I know the answer of course) I might tell them what possible routes of investigation are open to pursue and to do their homework themself. Otherwise, well, I don't know what to do - ignore or post once just to push it off the radar, see my post above


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## Stormseed (Nov 21, 2008)

Lewiy said:


> Generally I think the board members here don't want to spend THAT much time and effort on something that is not only probably quite complex, but also is very difficult to understand what is really required because the poster doesn't really know HOW it's done.
> 
> *I think the best attribute that this site has is its volume and range of experience of members. There's something for everyone from the smallest formula to the most complex VBA project. No matter what level you are at, there's almost always someone who can help you and another that you yourself can help*


 
Andrew, my friend, with all due respect, I would like to keep you updated that - what all you say above is not entirely true. There are many instances and my own experiences that can prove it though.

Check this out for example:

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337257

I agree, there are many occasions where only *a few *people are always willing to help, nevertheless, everything depends on their *tenor*. 

Everyone knows this: "the truth always hurts"


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## Stormseed (Nov 21, 2008)

jim may said:


> Self-removed from thread notification;
> Thanks to all,
> Jim


 
Jim, it is not over yet 

one question though - why do you feel so guilty about it ?


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## DonkeyOte (Nov 21, 2008)

Stormseed said:


> Andrew, my friend, with all due respect, I would like to keep you updated that - what all you say above is not entirely true. There are many instances and my own experiences that can prove it though.
> 
> Check this out for example:
> 
> ...



Did you mean something like the below CSE for Sheet2!C16 ?  :


```
=INDEX(Sheet1!$A$1:$P$14,MIN(IF((Sheet1!$A$6:$A$14=$A16)*(Sheet1!$B$6:$B$14=$A$4)*(Sheet1!$C$6:$C$14=$C$1),ROW($6:$14))),MIN(IF((Sheet1!$F$2:$P$2=$F$2)*(Sheet1!$F$3:$P$3=$G$2),COLUMN($F:$P))))
```


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## Stormseed (Nov 21, 2008)

thanks for that, Luke 

Unfortunately, it would not serve any purpose for me now. I am through with that problem - in other words - managed to crack down something else but through different means. Hence, I do not need someone to work that out for me anymore. 

Besides, an effort could be proven as a resource for others with a similar issue - so I would suggest you to post the resolution in that thread itself and certainly your *this* effort could be a well yielded answer too !


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## Darren Bartrup (Nov 23, 2008)

Some of the projects asked about on here I would be willing to get my teeth into, but time constraints generally don't let me at the moment - working on two big projects at work, requests from team members for 'quick fixes', and the occasional request from other departments for help keep me busy at work and a open university course keeps me busy in the evenings.
Saying that - when I do have time to help I'll generally only do it with posts that I can easily understand.  
There's plenty of examples of badly worded posts - "I want to right click on a cell and for it to prove the existence of god in pastel shades of logic while humming my favourite tune." - Sorry, need more information!  Which religion?  What's your favourite tune?

The thing that does get me though is when people send you private messages asking for help.  What's wrong with the forum?  I've only had this happen twice, once on this site and once on Facebook because I'm a member of the MrExcel group.


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