# Excel/Office 2007 - Who uses it?



## Smitty (Mar 28, 2009)

Pretty simple question I reckon'. I'm now using my personal laptop for work and it has Office 2007 Ultimate on it, but I find that most  board posts still center on 2000-2003 versions (not unexpected).

As a result I've posted some incompatible code (for which I apologize).

I just wanted to see how many people are "actually" using v.2007 vs. testing in their spare time. From what I've seen, it's not a lot, so time permitting, I'll be uninstalling v.2007 and reinstalling v.2003/2007, so I can run them side-by-side.

I'd like to get an idea of what other folks were dealing with out there, as '07 is new to me, but my old company had/has no intention of upgrading. I have a feeling a lot of other people are in the same boat.  My new company isn't going to upgrade either...


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## DonkeyOte (Mar 28, 2009)

I think we need another option -- ie I run both (and have no preference?)

I run 2007 on one machine and an earlier version on another... I don't mind 2007 NOW though initially I was not keen ... I would agree that a lot of people are still anti-2007 and/or don't have access to it but at the end of the day I'd be very surprised if MS opted to dispense with 2007 UI in future versions... so at some point people will have to bite the bullet on the whole UI debate be it with 2007 or a later version.  I suspect a lot of people will never use 2007 but most will end up using a 2007-esque version at some point in the future... it's inevitable I think.  The step-change reminds me a little of when .NET came to the fore and the introduction of things like ASP.Net ... those of us running classic  .asp sighed and said "no, we'll stay as we are - asp does what we want and we don't understand this new fangled thing" but eventually / inevitably joined the dark side and move to .aspx given at the end of the day it was, put simply, much better... XL2007 may not be better than 2003 on the same scale but I'm pretty sure future 2007-esque versions will be.


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## Richard Schollar (Mar 28, 2009)

The more I use 2007 the better I like it.  I don't use it at work (we have no intention of upgrading) altho I will be pushing for xl14 when it's released (for reasons that are covered by the NDA so I can't spill 'em, unfortunately).  I still prefer 2003 but 2007 is OK.  I'd still rather not have the ribbon but you do start getting used to it.


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## Joe4 (Mar 28, 2009)

One more option for you:

Yes, I use it, but only because I had no choice in the matter (work-wide Office upgrade)!


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## rconverse (Mar 28, 2009)

RichardSchollar said:


> The more I use 2007 the better I like it.  I don't use it at work (we have no intention of upgrading) altho I will be pushing for xl14 when it's released (for reasons that are covered by the NDA so I can't spill 'em, unfortunately).  I still prefer 2003 but 2007 is OK. * I'd still rather not have the ribbon *but you do start getting used to it.



Really?  I like it.  I can put all the commands that I use the most.  I think it's great.

The only issue I have with 2007 is that some people our company have it and some don't.  Therefore, I always have to keep files in compatible mode.


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## Richard Schollar (Mar 28, 2009)

Yeah but you could do that in 2003 and below with customised toolbars.  Like I said, I have started to get used to it, but IMHO it's not an advancement in UI design


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## Tom Urtis (Mar 28, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I'd like to get an idea of what other folks were dealing with out there, as '07 is new to me, but my old company had/has no intention of upgrading. I have a feeling a lot of other people are in the same boat. My new company isn't going to upgrade either...


Hey Chris, just a suggestion, here's how I would frame this poll.

It's been more than 2 years since Office 2007 was fully released.   As you say, it would be interesting to hear from Excel users as to what version(s) they are using at work and at home, and why.

Given that 10 options are available, can we use all 10 like this to cover as many combinations as possible:


Poll: Version 2007 and before: Your usage and preference.

Work: 2007 exclusively; Home: 2007 exclusively
Work: <= 2003 exclusively; Home: <= 2003 exclusively
Work: <= 2003 exclusively; Home: 2007 exclusively; I prefer 2007
Work: <= 2003 exclusively; Home: 2007 exclusively; I prefer <= 2003
Work: 2007 exclusively; Home: <=2003 and 2007; I prefer 2007
Work: 2007 exclusively; Home: <=2003 and 2007; I prefer <= 2003
Work: <=2003 and 2007; Home: 2007 exclusively; I prefer 2007
Work: <=2003 and 2007; Home: 2007 exclusively; I prefer <= 2003
Work <=2003 and 2007; Home <=2003 and 2007; I prefer 2007
Work <=2003 and 2007; Home <=2003 and 2007; I prefer <= 2003


Then any supporting comments from the Poll contributor.   As everyone knows, poll results can vary from reality depending on the count of responses.   Feel free to post a reply with any background info and comments, good bad or ugly, regarding the poll option you selected.

Couldn't resist the suggestion seeing as this site is so active with Excel users and lurkers, it'd yield a really good insight with the potential pool of poll contributors.


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## Smitty (Mar 28, 2009)

Good points Tom.

I'll see what I can do about changing the Poll, although I think the options are limited.


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## Tom Urtis (Mar 28, 2009)

I could be wrong but I think the options allow for up to 10.


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## Smitty (Mar 28, 2009)

I asked Joe if he could change the Poll, because I don't have access to it now.


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## lenze (Mar 28, 2009)

Until recently, I had no experience with 2007. But the pubic library announced they had upgraded some of their public computers to 2007, so I took a look. It seemed the more I looked for features, the more frustrated I became. It seems to me, it is way overkill. Yes, the increase in some limits may have an appeal, but not really. I, personally have only seen 1 spreadsheet with 256 columns and never 1 with 1,000,000 rows. That's why the state also runs Oracle. As for as extra nested IF's and extra CF's, I wouldn't bother. (That's why I learned VBA). I would guess that 2007 would have a significant impact on less than 5% of users.

lenze


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## Smitty (Mar 28, 2009)

lenze said:


> As for as extra nested IF's and extra CF's, I wouldn't bother.


 
I actually used CF on a 2007 report last week and it's a freaking pain in the ***.  I can understand the individualized components of it, but it seems to create far too many conditions than is useful, especially from a maintenance/continuity aspect.

Like with support for so many IF's I think it's meant to appeal to a broader user base than a competent one (who took the time to learn VBA).


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## Richard Schollar (Mar 28, 2009)

Smitty said:


> ...meant to appeal to a broader user base rather than a competent one ....





2007's epitaph?


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## xld (Mar 28, 2009)

RichardSchollar said:


> 2007's epitaph?



... or competent users epitaph.

BTW, what you feel about O14 is what we thought about O12 when we were first introduced to it. The sheen has disappeared rapidly. I don't like the ribbon, but I could grudgingly accept that if there were an equal impetus to fixing the things that were wrong, and improving areas that are in dire need of an uplift as well; but all I see is more emphasis on the superficial glitz.


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## xld (Mar 28, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I actually used CF on a 2007 report last week and it's a freaking pain in the ***.  I can understand the individualized components of it, but it seems to create far too many conditions than is useful, especially from a maintenance/continuity aspect.



Agreed, that dialog is also an interface disaster. Where did they dig that up from?



Smitty said:


> Like with support for so many IF's I think it's meant to appeal to a broader user base than a competent one (who took the time to learn VBA).



You never needed VBA to overcome the 7 nested function limit, just use functions more smartly.


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## Oorang (Mar 28, 2009)

I used to hate the Ribbon, then it dawned on me I could write a wrapper


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## Oorang (Mar 28, 2009)

lenze said:


> I would guess that 2007 would have a significant impact on less than 5% of users.


I think I respectfully disagree. I really do think 2007 eases the barrier to entry for new users. I don't think that it will help the really experienced users too much (in fact it slows them down quite a bit at first), but the thing about experts is... They'll figure it out anyway Wheras people who might have thrown their hands in the air previously... might not. I wouldn't discount the importance of smoothing out a learning curve when it comes to sales


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## Donai (Mar 28, 2009)

I am not too fond of 2007 because the big banks will never take this on since it will cost money to train staff with new features.


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## Oorang (Mar 28, 2009)

Well I hate to play the cynic after trying to be positive. But if the handling of VB6 was any indicator, Microsoft will realize their new product isn't being adopted because of their old product, end support for the old one, and _force_ you to make the change. So you might as well learn it now, while you still have a choice.


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## xenou (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm voting "no the ribbon sucks" -- what can I say -- I'm one of those power users who had no trouble getting what I needed quickly in Excel 2003.  If I get to the point where I'm using 2007 every day, I guess I'll probably start customizing the heck out of the ribbon ... so probably its no better or worse at the end of the day.  The extra choices in the dialog boxes are a bit confusing to me (and I even know what they are *supposed* to be doing).  It seems the complexity of the extra options make some things more difficult even if they are supposed to be more accessible.  I do like the extra (standard) colors.  I think the print preview is a bit strange with the headers and footers showing - or seeing part of a second page creeping in from the right.  Unpleasant.  Having formatting change in "real time" is cool.  Still don't get Tables/Lists.  I wish MS had put more time into pivot tables, or upgrading MSQuery - those are some great tools that can really be better or more user-friendly.  VBA - c'mon MS stay with me!  I don't want to have to buy Visual Studio so I can program Excel.  Wish I knew where that was going.  Maybe VSTO will be available in a version for those who want to program office applications...?  It's an expensive program as it is... And overall, I'm betting I'll like Office 2008 (?) better....Maybe I can even wait it out (like skipping Vista).

Alex.

EDIT:


> Well I hate to play the cynic after trying to be positive.


Hmmm...I don't see any cynicism here ... er ... isn't that just what's going to happen?


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## SydneyGeek (Mar 29, 2009)

I use 2003 and 2007 at home, and my main client switched to 2007 a few months ago. 

The Ribbon doesn't bother me that much -- I use keyboard shortcuts most of the time anyway -- but some of the features that got dropped out of VBA drove me nuts for a while until I found workarounds. 
The conditional formatting changes were mostly unnecessary and the CF interface is just plain confusing. 

That said, I can be productive in the new version, and I sometimes find myself scratching my head in 2003 and asking myself "where was that feature again?"

On the plus side, some of the form features in Access are definitely useful -- such as being able to resize fields in Layout view, with the data visible. 

Denis


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## xld (Mar 29, 2009)

Alexander Barnes said:


> Still don't get Tables/Lists.



They are one of the good/best fetaures in 2007 IMO, so stick with them.



Alexander Barnes said:


> I wish MS had put more time into pivot tables, or upgrading MSQuery - those are some great tools that can really be better or more user-friendly.



Agreed, and many other things besides, DV, Charts, CF, et al.



Alexander Barnes said:


> VBA - c'mon MS stay with me!  I don't want to have to buy Visual Studio so I can program Excel.  Wish I knew where that was going.  Maybe VSTO will be available in a version for those who want to program office applications...?  It's an expensive program as it is...



AT some point you will have no choice, VBA will be so far behind the curve.



Alexander Barnes said:


> And overall, I'm betting I'll like Office 2008 (?) better....Maybe I can even wait it out (like skipping Vista).



Well, seeing as 2008 is gone, it is going to be 2009 (at the earliest).


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## Mark O'Brien (Mar 29, 2009)

xld said:


> Well, seeing as 2008 is gone, it is going to be 2009 (at the earliest).



2008 is Mac-tastic.


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## schielrn (Mar 29, 2009)

I actually really like 2007.  There were many things that required a macro before that help me greatly with office spreadsheets.  Everyone in my office loves to color code for some reason and now I can easliy filter and sort on there ways and see what they were getting at.

Also I love the remove duplicates button as that helps greatly with many of the things I download from our legacy systems.

I like many of the new functions, averageif, countifs, sumifs and especially iferror, even though you could do those all before it is much easier now and much easier to teach others how to use them.

I am also a keyboard shortcut guy and not one that uses the ribbon too much, but once you learn where the specific features you use on teh ribbon are, I feel it is much easier to get to them.

I've been using it for almost 6 months now and feel very comfortable with it.

Also love there new filtering ways of being able to multi-select and also with pivot tables.  And I love the smaller file sizes.

I'm not sure I like the new pivot table design and wish I could find a way to always make it the classic table (I know you can change it after creating it, but I want all tables in classic).

If I think of other things when I get back to work and use it I will list them.


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## xenou (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks Schielrn, xld, others - good to get your feedback.  I was actually planning to "bite the bullet" - get it on my laptop so I'll actually use it more (here at work and elsewhere) - then decided I'd wait - now I think I'll go for it.  I'd better act quick before I change my mind again  My initial experiences at home have been positive (after the first few days of pulling my hair out not knowing where to go on the menus).  There's an interesting thread on a VBA/development/2007 in the lounge going on right now too:
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=380687

Does anyone have any direct experience with VSTO?  I'm assuming I have to buy Visual Studio to get the tools for office...I believe it gives you access to .NET tools for development with Office applications, but I just have never seen it in practice.

Alex.

Edit: Note xld, I'll try to keep an open mind about the tables/lists...


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## xld (Mar 29, 2009)

Alexander Barnes said:


> Does anyone have any direct experience with VSTO?  I'm assuming I have to buy Visual Studio to get the tools for office...I believe it gives you access to .NET tools for development with Office applications, but I just have never seen it in practice.



I think I am right in saying that previously, you bought Visual Studio, and VSTO was an additional if integrated tool, whereas VSTO is fully bundled with VS2008. VS2008 is fantastic, the IDE is just so rich, it is a joy to use. However, building Excel addins and the like is still a problem deploying. It is getting better but it is not good, and trying t build something like a simple UDF is a non-starter at present. With the cost of VS2008, I think it is hard to justify at present unless you are deploying to people who are all 2007, all Net 3.5, in other words you know the target.


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## RichardS (Mar 29, 2009)

I think the magnitude of the roll-out is keeping my work from going to 2007. On 2003 at present. My daughters school has it though, so doing homework on the week-end we jad to download the file converter so she could us my laptop, which is on 2000.


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## yytsunamiyy (Mar 29, 2009)

Smitty said:


> As a result I've posted some incompatible code (for which I apologize).
> 
> I just wanted to see how many people are "actually" using v.2007 vs. testing in their spare time. From what I've seen, it's not a lot, so time permitting, I'll be uninstalling v.2007 and reinstalling v.2003/2007, so I can run them side-by-side.


 
I did (almost exactly) that, installing 07 on the same machine 2000 was already installed on. Did some coding in 2007 (project took me about 8 weeks), tested it in 2000 - all was running just fine. Took the file to a machine that only ever had 2003 installed - oodles and oodles of bugs and runtime errors. Seems that the 2007 libraries replaced the 2000 libraries on my machine, allowing 2000 to run 2007 code - I basically ended up rewriting the whole thing on a 2003 machine...

2007 earned a special place in my heart just for that - never mind the puck-ugly ribbon with Kindergarden style buttons that only serves to make you look for hours for functionality you know used to exist.

Having said that, I do now do most of my excelling in 07 - not least because I'm just finishing my studies and figure I would look seriously stupid if I write in my CV that I am proficcient in Excel, a potential employer sits me down in front of '07 and I start searching for a couple of minutes before I find the button I need.

So, all said and done, I'm using '07 - but grudgingly...


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## Domski (Mar 30, 2009)

We were supposed to be moving to 2007 this year but it doesn't look likely now as ICT are concentrating on moving from Lotus to Outlook and getting our corporate BI solution moved onto MS technology first.

I was really hoping it would be soon as I'm on 2007 at home now but just don't use it enough to get proficient with the Ribbon and when I do stray on here at the weekend quite often just stare at it for a couple of mins before I realise where what I am looking for is.

If there's one thing that I find more annoying than the Ribbon it's the 'Help' which just seems to randomly suggest things that bear no resemblance to what you have typed in.

In short I guess I am getting used to 2007 slowly but I can't say I'm liking it.

Dom


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## schielrn (Mar 30, 2009)

Domski said:


> Ifthere's one thing that I find more annoying than the Ribbon it's the 'Help' which just seems to randomly suggest things that bear no resemblance to what you have typed in.


I definitely agree with this.  Help sucks in 2007 IMO, or I am just not using it correctly?

How can one use help incorrectly?  So it must just be me.


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## Domski (Mar 30, 2009)

I think it could be a combination of user error and crap design but I'm glad I'm not the only one!!!


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## Oorang (Mar 30, 2009)

This is not directed at any one person, just a general observation:
Some part of me is reminded of all those people who swore word processing was perfected by Corel... Changing interface doesn't really stop you from using the product it just forces you to relearn the product a little. You can shake your fist at the heavens all you want but you can't unring a bell. Might as well learn it or you go from the "expert" to that guy who's really good with a technology that no one cares about in a dead hurry.
People who elect for careers as "experts" commit themselves to a lifetime of learning. Do you think Doctors just quit learning after med school? Pharmacists? Lawyers? Nope. They have to prove that they are continuing their education and keep their credientials up to date. IT and other "expert" fields are no different.

Failure to adapt to change results in obsoletion.

Directed at a person...
Karl Peterson was right. But if he would have let it go he'd be an expert at the new product by now.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>


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## DreamAlchemist (Mar 30, 2009)

I didn't see an option for me. I use 2007 but I hate it and the freaking UI Ribbon that I am forced to use and cannot customize to my needs and get rid of the trash I don't use or need like I was able to in 03 and older. I also miss my menu bar for those things I didn't have on my toolbar.


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## texasalynn (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm not too crazy about 2007.  Got it at home first to start learning how to get around.  The job I'm at now has 2003 on the local PC, but our TS has 2007.  The most annoying is that Pivot tables no longer has the report options, which I used a lot.


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## Greg Truby (Mar 30, 2009)

schielrn said:


> Help sucks in 2007 IMO, or I am just not using it correctly?





Domski said:


> I think it could be a combination of user error and crap design but I'm glad I'm not the only one!!!


Dang, that reminds me -- I meant to ask the Excel Development team if they intentionally hooked the random number generation algorithm to XL2007's help system? Or was it an accident?


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## xld (Mar 31, 2009)

schielrn said:


> I definitely agree with this.  Help sucks in 2007 IMO, or I am just not using it correctly?
> 
> How can one use help incorrectly?  So it must just be me.



No it isn't just you, no-one thinks 2007 help is even adequate.


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## xld (Mar 31, 2009)

Oorang said:


> This is not directed at any one person, just a general observation:
> Some part of me is reminded of all those people who swore word processing was perfected by Corel... Changing interface doesn't really stop you from using the product it just forces you to relearn the product a little. You can shake your fist at the heavens all you want but you can't unring a bell. Might as well learn it or you go from the "expert" to that guy who's really good with a technology that no one cares about in a dead hurry.
> People who elect for careers as "experts" commit themselves to a lifetime of learning. Do you think Doctors just quit learning after med school? Pharmacists? Lawyers? Nope. They have to prove that they are continuing their education and keep their credientials up to date. IT and other "expert" fields are no different.
> 
> ...



That is a poor analogy IMO. Of course we all want the product to progress onward, and we want to be there with it, but it has to progress in a meaningful direction. 

When I first saw 2007 some years back I was very receptive and looking forward to it. Since then  I have been continually frustrated by it. Many things have been re-written, and quite honestly a bad job has been done with it. 

Whilst I am not a ribbon hater per se like some, but the more I use it the more I wonder why. The so-called objectives of making it more accessible and not burying items has just plain failed, what is Orange Button>Excel Options if it isn't a poor man's Tools>Options? It might make the most basic functionality more accessible, but Excel is more than just a basic program.

To me, there are so many areas that Excel could have been, can be, improved, but instead we get a new UI and a new charting engine. So, MS have gone for style over substance IMO. To me MS have been slow to understand technology directions (Internet, XML), and when they come aboard they can show just as little understanding and over-engineer. With their ubiquity, they seem to feel that they can just impose on the community.

As for Karl, he has become an expert at a new product, it is just not .Net. He is far more into Linux and such now, and that is something that MS should be wary of. Apple is taking big chunks of market share, Linux is growing, so if any of the Office alternatives make a big step ... there are danger signs out there for MS.


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## Oorang (Mar 31, 2009)

Lord Bob 
I think all of those remarks are fair and accurate, and don't get me wrong about Karl. Karl is awesome and I have learned tons and tons from him and his site. So much so, I wish he had a section about .Net that was as deep as his  VB6 site. But he doesn't and so the community has had to march on without him... And they did. And now for most modern development it's a world without Karl.

And how much impact has that dramatic example had on Microsoft? Exactly.

I'm not saying Office12 is perfect in every way, wanting in nothing. I'm just observing that MS isn't well known for listening to their user community. They will continue in the direction they are heading with or without my support. And in the mean time I need a paycheck 

And to your point about Apple taking market share, all I can say is you are right. Office 2003 is missing a lot of things it could be doing... Of course the only way to fix that would be to change the product ;D

Oh and as for Open Source. I love and support Open Source... But it's free... See previous comments about needing a paycheck.


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## Yard (Mar 31, 2009)

My view of 2007 in a nutshell (I hope):

Using it 100% at work for about 9 months now.

It crashes more than earlier versions.

Things look much prettier.

Some things _seem_ improved, but in reality have not been effectively planned or tested, e.g. Conditional Formatting dialog, Tables.

The Ribbon is just like another menu - don't tell me anyone with sufficient intelligence to write some simple formulas can't learn where a button is within a few hours of using it.

It's still a very useful package and I enjoy using it, but the consensus seems to be: make it work properly before making it look pretty.


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## RoryA (Mar 31, 2009)

I haven't used the main XL2007 help much, but whoever did that to the VBA help should be taken out and beaten, IMO.


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## Domski (Mar 31, 2009)

rorya said:


> I haven't used the main XL2007 help much, but whoever did that to the VBA help should be taken out and beaten, IMO.


 
And there was me hoping you might know their identity Rory


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## RoryA (Mar 31, 2009)

If I'm invited to the Summit next year, I will try and go just to find that out!


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## Greg Truby (Mar 31, 2009)

rorya said:


> ...but whoever did that to the VBA help should be taken out and beaten, IMO.


If you bring a nice cricket bat, I'll <S>hold the rascal down</S> sit on him -- that ought to keep the rascal pinned while you knock some sense into him.


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## TinaP (Mar 31, 2009)

I have it, but I'm not terribly impressed with it.  I don't like the ribbon concept; most features are even harder to find.


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## Patience (Mar 31, 2009)

I ticked the yeah option, but really I wanted, 'Yes I use it, but I am not enthralled.' Hmm.


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## xenou (Apr 4, 2009)

I foun an interesting site today for financial analysts and modelers - seems they've run their own poll as well.

http://www.fi-mech.com/the+swamp+fox/archive/06/#Feature2

Alex


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## Smitty (Apr 4, 2009)

Greg Truby said:


> If you bring a nice cricket bat, I'll <S>hold the rascal down</S> sit on him -- that ought to keep the rascal pinned while you knock some sense into him.


 
You'd better show up this time!


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## xld (Apr 5, 2009)

Oorang said:


> Lord Bob
> I think all of those remarks are fair and accurate, and don't get me wrong about Karl. Karl is awesome and I have learned tons and tons from him and his site. So much so, I wish he had a section about .Net that was as deep as his  VB6 site. But he doesn't and so the community has had to march on without him... And they did. And now for most modern development it's a world without Karl.
> 
> And how much impact has that dramatic example had on Microsoft? Exactly.
> ...



Oorang,

I think we have to pretty well aligned overall views, even if we differ around the edges 

My point about Karl is that he like everyone else is free to make his own course, follow his own direction. He was/is a VB6 giant, but MS cut him because they couldn't stand the criticism (the final straw was probably the VB6 petition). He may be a bit over-eager in voicing his opinion (Understatement?), but that doesn't sound like a confident, listening company to me. That is a big weakness in the MS structure IMO as they are sure they know best; they are sure SQM data is the best you can get (true if best = lowest common denominator); they are sure that their technical soothsayers are the best even though they have been late to every major technological change over the past 15 years and then missed the point when they have jumped aboard; and they are sure that their graphical designers are the best even though they flout all of the basic rules of good graphics/UI/visual effect.


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