# How important are Excel forum's?



## Jon von der Heyden

In your opinion - how important are Excel forum's?  

Put it this way - do you believe that you could have attained your Excel knowledge from only books, perhaps a course or two, and by trial-and-error?

How about the professional Excel consultants out there?  Finance / business skills aside - do you think that they could possess the requisite skills without forum interaction?

Is forum lurking enough - or do you think that forum contribution (getting your hands dirty), is imperative?

Have we had a poll like this before?  I couldn't find one.


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## Darren Bartrup

I'd say very important.  

Doubt I'd have the knowledge just by reading books - I've only bought one book on Excel and that was "VBA & Macros for Excel" written by an admin on this site.
I've only been on a couple of in-house work based training courses and they were a bit embarrassing really - yes I know how to sort and record a macro.

Forum lurking is ok to start with, but I find these days that answering questions on the forum is a good way of clearing the mind when you get stuck on your own project.


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## Jack in the UK

Hey Jon
lurking is critical and gets guys involved then they decide to join in, ask or answer - not many read full books and learn or study, they pick it up by struggling and working it out, forums help this

Admitted also breeds the lazy 

jiuk


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## Scott Huish

I find it very difficult to learn from books, outside of a classroom. Over the years, I have learned more from this site than I ever had from a book.


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## BiocideJ

For myself personally, I would say EXTREMELY important. I would venture to say that over 75% of what I know is from the forums and the other 25% is mainly just from trying to figure things out on my own.

I would place my learning from the forums into 3 progressive categories based on how I used them.

1. My early Excel days as a lurker where I would search for my problem and usually always find the solution I was looking for. This was based on my limited knowledge and the questions I had then I would consider trivial now.

2. My slightly later Excel days as a question poster where I would search for my problem, but realize it was more complex than existing questions that I could find answers to easily. This was because I had a better understanding of the basics and the questions I had were more specific and complicated.

3. My current Excel level where I consider myself a relatively active contributor. While I still post questions from time to time, these are generally extremely specific and I find I now learn more from considering OTHER people's questions and trying to learn new and better ways to solve the problems others are facing and/or viewing alternative solutions that even more experienced Excel users post to the same question.

In summary, the main reason I believe forums are superior to almost any other potential form of learning is simply because they offer immediate access to a searchable library of real-world problems.

EDIT:
As far as lurker vs. contributor, in my opinion, it has more to do with the knowledge of the user than any intent to lurk.  Actually, I can't imagine I would have offered much 'help' in my early lurker days.


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## TinaP

I couldn't do 75% of what I do without forums--especially this forum.  The collaboration when several contributors answer is priceless.  

Books got me started with Excel knowledge, but the forums educated me.


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## SydneyGeek

TinaP said:


> Books got me started with Excel knowledge, but the forums educated me.



Nicely put Tina. I have learnt heaps from this forum. I also read books -- usually I will buy a book if I want to answer a big question. When I find the book with the answer, I buy it. Anything else that I learn from the book is a bonus.

As for lurking or answering: You learn a lot faster when you try to contribute. It focuses the mind. And the best posts are the ones where several people are getting involved. In those cases, the OP gets their answer and everyone else gets the benefit of comparing / moulding multiple approaches.

I couldn't have done my job in the first few years without this site.

Denis


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## My Aswer Is This

I like the challenge of solving excel questions. Sometimes I work for days resolving a question just so I can learn more. Formulas are my downfall so I stick mostly to scripts. I stick with the short and simple questions. The more complicated ones I leave to the guys or gals who have been here for years. Thanks for providing this service.


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## Jon von der Heyden

All very good replies - I'm glad that my views are shared by many (so far).

I've worked in corporate finance for many years.  I've always been quite concerned about the lack of Excel coverage in accounting degrees / qualifications.  Do you think Excel should be covered better in accounting studies (and other numeracy based qualifications)?  I notice qualified accountants often quickly climb the corporate ladder yet never achieve a good level of Excel skills.  In my experience I notice that the effect is that very often management don't appreciate the importance of Excel and don't have a good expectation in terms of what to expect from their staff.  As a training provider the effect can be seen when I approach companies and offer my services as a trainer.  I typically hear 1 of 2 things.

1. "We already have all the Excel skills we need internally!"
or
2. "Can you teach my accountants all of the relevant skills in two days?"

Given that a typical accountant will use Excel for 60-80% of their working hours, how can Excel be so terribly under estimated?


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## mfexcel

I am glad that I found this forum years ago.  

I've learned far much more from this forum than reading books.  By reading answers and trying to solve others' problems, I have boosted my Excel skills so much in the past 2 years; and still learning every day.

More importantly, all the Excel Gurus who share their knowledge generously make this forum GREAT!   

Super thanks to all contributors here!


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## My Aswer Is This

My first experience with Spreadsheets was while I was in the Air force in the late 80's. I moved into a new job in Maintenance control. I was interested in computers and noticed this female airman using Lotus 123. But I also noticed she had a hand held calculator in her hand. I asked what the hand held calculator was for and she said someone had erased all the formulas in the spreadsheet and no one knew how to put them back in so she was doing the calculations by hand and then putting the results into the report. I found myself a new job as the office computer guy. Had to buy a Lotus 123 manual from the base bookstore because no one had a manual. I would read the manuals from cover to cover.</SPAN>


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## SydneyGeek

Jon von der Heyden said:


> I've worked in corporate finance for many years.  I've always been quite concerned about the lack of Excel coverage in accounting degrees / qualifications.  Do you think Excel should be covered better in accounting studies (and other numeracy based qualifications)?  I notice qualified accountants often quickly climb the corporate ladder yet never achieve a good level of Excel skills.  In my experience I notice that the effect is that very often management don't appreciate the importance of Excel and don't have a good expectation in terms of what to expect from their staff.  As a training provider the effect can be seen when I approach companies and offer my services as a trainer.  I typically hear 1 of 2 things.
> 
> 1. "We already have all the Excel skills we need internally!"
> or
> 2. "Can you teach my accountants all of the relevant skills in two days?"
> 
> Given that a typical accountant will use Excel for 60-80% of their working hours, how can Excel be so terribly under estimated?



There is no concept out there (for most corporates anyway) of what constitutes advanced Excel, and what it takes to get there. I trained others for years using commercially available courseware, and the Advanced course covered VLOOKUP, nested IF, and a couple of others, then pivot tables (very basic), recorded macros, and Goal Seek / Solver. Oh, and some stuff that I have seldom seen used in the wild like Reports, Views, Scenarios.

At least it had the capacity to take people to "Competent", but "Advanced" is a definite misnomer. Most commercial courses just scratch the surface, and because the executives generally don't have the skills they don't know what they don't know.
Makes it a hard sell... 
However, if you can show them the difference between pre-baked courses and the stuff you teach, you can make a difference. And I assume that the attendees get heaps out of it, because here in front of them is a person who understands and can stretch them. You can't teach them everything in 2 days, but you can open their eyes.

Which makes me think that more relevant Excel experience, in the degree, would be a huge benefit to financial types and engineers. The question is, could you find people wit the desire and the skills to teach the courses?

Denis


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## Jon von der Heyden

SydneyGeek said:


> You can't teach them everything in 2 days, but you can open their eyes.


That's my mission!



SydneyGeek said:


> The question is, could you find people with the desire and the skills to teach the courses?


I'd say that our research team are doing a fab job of getting the right delegates.  My last group was amazing - each had a real passion!  I hope to see some of them contributing here (I go out of my way to promote MrExcel).  The problem is - there are far too few with the passion; because they haven't yet scratched the surface.

Where lies the root of the problem?  How do we fix it?


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## BiocideJ

Jon von der Heyden said:


> Where lies the root of the problem? How do we fix it?



I think like SydneyGeek said, people "don't know what they don't know".
The last company I worked for had an advanced Excel skills assessment for all applicants.
Every applicant who got through to taking the test claimed to have advanced Excel skills, but of the 50-60 that took it while I was there, I know of only two who got more than 6 of the 10 questions correct. Most only got 2-3 right.

Either people were lying about their skills or they just had no idea what actually constitutes an advanced Excel user.
As far as how to fix it, I've got nothing. It's difficult to convince someone they need something they don't see the need for in the moment.


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## Jon von der Heyden

For me, being an advanced in Excel is more than just about knowing how the functions and tools work.  It's about knowing what to use, and when.  Through interactions here we learn many design concepts.  Concepts that just aren't covered  sufficiently in books and courses.  I've seen many Excel assessments.  I've never seen one that can be used to determine if an individual is capable of building a good model that meets a range of criteria.  For me, those being:

*Easy to use*:
- Logical order of worksheets
- Navigation, is there means to navigate around the workbook without having to scroll endlessly (i.e. use of hyperlinks, grouping, custom views etc)
- Clearly marked inputs (using e.g. Styles)

*Flexible:*
- Avoid unnecessary use of constants.  Does it easily support structural changes?  E.g. if a column is inserted, will VLOOKUP column index expand to accommodate the change?
- Dynamic references, do formula and pivot table ranges span arb row counts, or are they referencing dynamic ranges?  Appropriate use of Tables (ListObjects)
- Date flexibility is another important one to me.  Are dates hard-coded?  Are date functions being used appropriately?

*Robust:*
- Are appropriate measures taken to ensure that worksheet and workbook structures cannot be tampered with (worksheet and workbook protection)
- Appropriate use of validation.  I think DV is entirely under-used.  If it's an input - then the input rules must be considered and the appropriate validation applied.
- No or few external links as possible!  Where possible resort to queries.

*Presentable:*
- Print ready.  Has the user set-up a default workbook that incorporates print settings that are less likely to need to be changed?
- Styled; according to brand.  Styles ensure consistency.  Not only within one workbook but across a suite of models.

*Accurate:*
- Balancing checks and flags.  Is a consistent convention used?  Or do I have to search the entire statement at various positions to see if figures stack?  I like to use consistent ranges for balancing checks and flags such that I can aggregate and have a central place to view and help me identify errors, and specifically where they occur?
- Appropriate use of Pivot Tables.  If the summary could have been presented in a Pivot Table instead then it should.  Users are far more likely to make errors in formula based summaries.  I have a lot more trust in Pivot Tables.
- Appropriate use of custom number formats instead of conditional formatting (where possible).

*Efficient:*
- Structured for best formula selection.
- Binary lookups on all possible occasions, particularly where referencing large data sets.
- Avoid excessive use of volatile functions, and avoid too many dependents on volatile references.

If I were to build a test - these are things I would check.  Of course this means that the test will be extensive and take time, as will marking it!  But if you can tick these boxes then I think you've got it!


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## BiocideJ

Interestingly, most of the items in your list are probably not things that lend themselves well to learning from a forum (or a book) but are something that would probably either come through an instructor-led course or through experience.


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## Jon von der Heyden

BiocideJ said:


> Interestingly, most of the items in your list are probably not things that lend themselves well to learning from a forum (or a book) but are something that would probably either come through an instructor-led course or through experience.



I think they are taught through many years of hints and tips.  It's just that there's nothing structured.  Most corporates are reluctant to invest in a training course beyond 2 days - (1) because obviously the cost is greater and (2) because they can ill-afford to lose an accountant for any longer.  I cover this material in 2 days; but I certainly cannot cover it thoroughly enough.


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## mfexcel

Can't agree more.



SydneyGeek said:


> You can't teach them everything in 2 days, but you can open their eyes.
> 
> Denis


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## SydneyGeek

In (parts of) the place where I work, models are built using templates created via a large add-in. Won't mention the name here, but it builds navigation, includes error checking, and forces a structure on the workbook, among other things. 
It's reasonably good for financial modelling but not hte knid of stuff that I do. However, the structure is unnecessarily rigid and leads to bloated workbooks. I've seen models with 60 sheets that could have been achieved the result in a much smaller package, and probably been easier to use.

The point for me is that you can't buy good design, you have to learn and then apply it. At least you get 2 days with these guys. Do you get feedback on how they are going after they attend your courses? Do many of them use your course as a springboard?

Denis


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## mfexcel

As a matter of fact, there are so many people who thinks they are good in Excel when they know how to construct a basic vlookup.  I was one of them. 



BiocideJ said:


> Either people were lying about their skills or they just had no idea what actually constitutes an advanced Excel user.




Now when I deliver Excel training, I always emphasize the applications to daily work. Trainees show interests when they realize how Excel could help them finish their works much quicker. (e.g. as simple as using wildcard in Find and Replace). People are practical after all. :P


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## Jon von der Heyden

SydneyGeek said:


> Do you get feedback on how they are going after they attend your courses? Do many of them use your course as a springboard?


Good question.  Yes I keep in touch with many.  I think my course is very effective (of course I would); because it has a good balance of power tips but also covers so many concepts required to advance ones knowledge properly.  The biggest improvement I see is the use of query tables to avoid having cumbersome copy&paste processes.  QT's I notice are often ordered, as I prescribed, in many instances enabling binary lookups.  But this is one part I drill in very hard and it's nice to see implemented.

A few students are showing real progress.  They use the forums and they bug me regularly!  The best I can do is encourage the serious learner to start using the forums!


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## MrExcel

It is all about making people aware of what they don't know. It is so easy to spend 40 hours a week "using Excel" by doing things the hard way, when a VLOOKUP or a Pivot Table would solve the problem in minutes instead of hours.

*Nothing makes you aware of how much you don't know about Excel than reading a few dozen threads here.* For the last year, I've been promoting daily 5 hot topics from this board on the top of the right column at the MrExcel home page... hoping I can interest people in watching how the community here solves difficult problems. (If anyone wants to re-use this box on their blog or website, the instructions are  here).

In my live Excel seminars, I have either 3.5 or 7 hours to make people aware of the powerful tools available in Excel. I am hoping the people in the seminar will find the one item that is currently causing them the most pain in Excel can be dramatically simplified. I am hoping to save them an hour a week and get them hooked on learning more.  In the seminar and in my books, I always promote this forum as an amazing resource. 

Bill


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## Jon von der Heyden

Nice idea Bill.  The code seems to mess with my theme and so my pages look awful (Wordpress Tempera - quite a common theme).  I'll see if I can find some sort of fix.


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## Colin Legg

I'd be way behind the curve without the forums so I'd rate them as very important.

A word of caution to learners though: they can be a wonderful source of information but they can also be a source of misinformation.


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## Smitty

> It is all about making people aware of what they don't know.



Training can tend to get overwhelming for most people and I let them know that I don't expect them to retain anything right up front because of overload.  But if in a few days, weeks, months they find themselves in a position to utilize something that they "heard", then at least they know it exists and (maybe) where to look.

In our training I always point people to the board, as well as encourage them to contact me anytime in the future.  

I remember one time a while back when Bill posted a question (rare enough that he posts), and got a response in a few minutes.  The question was nonsense, but he was hosting a seminar and wanted to show the crowd how fast people here will respond.


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## Rockminer

If it wasn't for the board regulars and moderators on this site, I would not have been able to complete several of the tasks that I needed to do.  I looked in books for answers as well as online instructions however, this site is BY FAR THE BEST PLACE to get the answers needed to remedy excel problems.


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## J.Ty.

Perhaps 99% of my activity here is solving problems rather than searching for help. Still, I have learned a lot by observing solutions posted by others. 

Next, I do research in computer science, and observing questions is very interesting for me, because it indicates what people are trying to do in Excel. Recently, I started adding references to posts in this forum to my research papers. They serve as use cases and justify my research direction: "I encode algorithm doing X in Excel, because there are posts in MrExcel forum, where people request help in doing X in Excel".

J.Ty.


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## Aladin Akyurek

J.Ty. said:


> Perhaps 99% of my activity here is solving problems rather than searching for help. Still, I have learned a lot by observing solutions posted by others.
> 
> Next, I do research in computer science, and observing questions is very interesting for me, because it indicates what people are trying to do in Excel. Recently, I started adding references to posts in this forum to my research papers. They serve as use cases and justify my research direction: "I encode algorithm doing X in Excel, because there are posts in MrExcel forum, where people request help in doing X in Excel".
> 
> J.Ty.



If it's in English (I presume it is), I'd be interested to receive copies of the papers you might have.

Regards,
Aladin


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## J.Ty.

Aladin Akyurek said:


> If it's in English (I presume it is), I'd be interested to receive copies of the papers you might have.
> 
> Regards,
> Aladin




Here you are:

1.The one where I referred to MrExcel threads is here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.2103;
Its predecessor was Spreadsheet as a relational database engine

2. An older one, with no references to MrExcel is [1211.6781] User Defined Spreadsheet Functions in Excel

3. And this one is still in preparation: [1307.7261] The Power of Spreadsheet Computations


 J.Ty.


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## zrx1200

This is very important for those wishing to extend ones capability's in excel!

Not to often when I post  question do I wait for a reply.

Great thread by the way.


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## Aladin Akyurek

J.Ty. said:


> Here you are:
> 
> 1.The one where I referred to MrExcel threads is here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.2103;
> Its predecessor was Spreadsheet as a relational database engine
> 
> 2. An older one, with no references to MrExcel is [1211.6781] User Defined Spreadsheet Functions in Excel
> 
> 3. And this one is still in preparation: [1307.7261] The Power of Spreadsheet Computations
> 
> 
> J.Ty.



I don't have access to ACM in order to get the first one.


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## J.Ty.

Dear Aladin,

 Here it is from my Web page: Spreadsheet as a relational database engine

J.Ty.


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## Aladin Akyurek

J.Ty. said:


> Dear Aladin,
> 
> Here it is from my Web page: Spreadsheet as a relational database engine
> 
> J.Ty.



Thanks...


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## taurean

Here's an interesting story:
http://www.snlabetterway.com/socrates-secret-to-success/#.VFh90WcdTpI
One should be willing to learn and it applies to Excel learning like other things that we learn in life.

The importance of forums really can't be stated or summed up in couple of statements but if you are DIY person and willing to spend some time then forums are really good source for learning and that does not limit to Excel. It is here you see the experts in the field guiding newbs for free and also solutions to real world problems. But one needs to be focused about what he is seeking otherwise one could get confused and disoriented very quickly due to sheer enormity of what web stores.

The seekers are very less. Rest will say "ooh, could you show that magic again please?" and when they say that then mostly you can be sure that they are more interested in "destination" than "journey".

To see the people interested in the "journey" on MrExcel by clicking on
_Community | Member List_
And then sort them by number of Posts. Mostly people in first 20 pages would be the usual suspects. Small percentage compared to total members. I guess that pretty much extends to real world as well.


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## Jon von der Heyden

My brother has an opinion on how long it takes to develop a skill.  His observation is that in almost any skilled occupation it takes about a decade to become 'good'.  He's a mechanic and auto-electrician and he figures it took him ten years to acquire the knowledge behind the most common faults according to different vehicle manufacturers, the variety of models, but also to discover which gizmo's work, which ones don't and how to use them.  It's quite fun to watch actually.  Someone comes in to the workshop and describes a particular problem.  My brother plugs a computer into the diagnostic node and it rattles off a huge list of faults.  He then scans the report and works out the likely cause - often the long list of errors is a knock-on effect from a single fault.  Watching him it makes sense that it took him ten years to develop those skills - it is like watching a magician.

I look at friends in varying occupations and those that seem to really all know their stuff have had a passion for what they do that has lasted at least ten years.

And I think the same is true in my case.  It has taken me _at least_ ten years to learn Excel sufficiently to learn how to apply it properly.


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## Aladin Akyurek

Jon von der Heyden said:


> My brother has an opinion on how long it takes to develop a skill. His observation is that in almost any skilled occupation it takes about a decade to become 'good'. [...]



And Herbert Simon before him. So I'm told (Does someone have a citation?).


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## Jon von der Heyden

Oh cool.  I see this on wikipedia:


> He said that to become an expert on a topic required about ten years of experience and he and colleagues estimated that expertise was the result of learning roughly 50,000 chunks of information


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## taurean

Aladin Akyurek said:


> And Herbert Simon before him. So I'm told (Does someone have a citation?).


Complexity and the Ten-Thousand-Hour Rule - The New Yorker

These days, however there's one more breed of experts (Google experts). Be it code or formula, they can search it in good time. However, this doesn't help if your problem is undocumented. In that case, the 10000 hours expert would surely be the one who will find a solution.

Jon's brother reminds me of another story.


> Once, a highly experienced and skilled engineer was called to start                     the engine of the ship that otherwise was impaired since days. The                     experienced engineer hit the hammer on some critical part of the                     engine and voila !. He sent the invoice of 10K Dollars. The captain                     fumed - "10K for 1 hammer hit". He demanded an itemised bill. The                     engineer sent the itemised bill
> 
> Dollar 1 for the hit
> Dollar 9999 for knowing "Where to                             hit"


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## BiocideJ

taurean said:


> Once, a highly experienced and skilled engineer was called to start the engine of the ship that otherwise was impaired since days. The experienced engineer hit the hammer on some critical part of the engine and voila !. He sent the invoice of 10K Dollars. The captain fumed - "10K for 1 hammer hit". He demanded an itemised bill. The engineer sent the itemised bill
> 
> 
> Dollar 1 for the hit
> Dollar 9999 for knowing "Where to hit"



I think this story encapsulates the problem with people's perceived knowledge of Excel (or anything).  We (myself included) all have a concept of how much we know that is based on the experiences we have had.  That perception is framed within the context of our experiences and, truthfully, *we are all experts at what we already know*.

For instance, if we drew a circle on the beach and every grain of sand in that circle was everything we knew then we could call ourselves experts of that circle.  The trick is realizing how small that circle is in relationship to the entire ocean's sand.  

Sometimes, I think the only way to realize (or explain) this shortcoming is to expose it to greater knowledge.  To me, that is the simple beauty of the forum experience.


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## Darren Bartrup

So broken down into the four stages of competence it would take ten years to become unconsciously competent.

I'm sorry to say the easiest explanation to understand of this was on Wikipedia:
Four stages of competence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd say I'm probably halfway between consciously competent and unconsciously competent - I generally know which formula to use without thinking about it, I can code fairly well without thinking about it but I do still have to stop and ask about some things.  

I'll copy whole chunks of code from the internet and it's rare that I won't be able to figure out what it's doing and how (if well written) and sometimes I know that I haven't the skill to achieve a certain task - but I know where to look to get the answer (i.e. I know how to ask Google).


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## DocAElstein

Jon von der Heyden said:


> In your opinion - how important are Excel forum's?
> 
> Is forum lurking enough - or do you think that forum contribution (getting your hands dirty), is imperative?
> 
> ...


 
…  I can only say I would give the thumbs up. And agree with everything positive said about, in particular this forum..
.. Lurking is OK. And certainly initially just asking questions is OK. Everyone does as much as they can. Team work. But I would recommend trying to put a bit back, -it can be a bit hard initially but as already commented, _answering questions on the forum is a good way of clearing the mind when you get stuck on your own project_. And you really do learn the most by practicing. And better in the “real world” to answer a real problem rather than a set one in a book.
.   And so grateful as I am for the help received it makes you want to give back and contribute.

.. BUT: - My only small –ve point. There seems to be lot of one thread posters that do not always explain their problem too well and after obtaining a solution never acknowledge even with a simple thanks. Admitted it is a free forum and no one has to answer a Thread. But maybe there should be some requirement to the legitability, that is to say if a member is “real” and not just registering each time under some pseudo name so as to not be traceable as someone who always asks for help, but never gives something back or even acknowledges help -  as would be visible in the profile if they always used the same name. I have had some criticisms as to my behavior on the board. But I accept them and stay “real”. 
.  And possibly some more emphasis to new members to read the rules FAX and Guidelines / tips  for posting etc.. 

Alan Elston
Bavaria


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## Jon von der Heyden

Hi Alan

Thanks for your feedback.  You've made some good points here, and the issues you describe are concerns that are voiced fairly routinely, and issues we (mods and admin) have done our utmost to address.

The issue of not getting acknowledgement is often discussed, but the mods agree it is something very difficult to police and enforce, so we rather encourage others to post freely without a determined expectation of "thanks".  

In terms of authenticating "real" users, here we rely on the forum software.  We do check for possible duplicate accounts and try and force users to use a single account.  As mods we've been quite successful.  The software itself plays a part.  Users cannot subscribe to multiple accounts using the same email address.  We have blocked IP addresses to prevent users that don't intend on using the board in the prescribed manner.

Finally, about reading rules and posting guidelines.  All new members receive an email asking them top read terms etc.  The links are there.  There are stickies in various forums.  Most of the mods include links to the rules and guidelines in our signatures.  And we have encouraged other to include the same in their signature.  So I'm absolutely certain that visibility isn't an issue - and at the end of the day we cannot force people to read terms, rules and guidelines.  All we can do is reprimand those that don't comply, occasionally even having to ban those that persist in not following the rules (regrettably).

So thanks for your comments and they are well received and absolutely relevant.  However I would like to encourage you and others to please not pursue these topics to much further in this thread, as the objective here is to discuss how forums add benefit to the learner, rather than discuss the nitty-gritty things that annoy us at this forum.  There are already existing threads covering these topics that can be resurrected.  Thanks again


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## DocAElstein

jon von der heyden said:


> ......... Thanks for your comments and they are well received and absolutely relevant.  However i would like to encourage you and others to please not pursue these topics to much further in this thread, as the objective here is to discuss how forums add benefit to the learner, rather than discuss the nitty-gritty things that annoy us at this forum.  There are already existing threads covering these topics that can be resurrected.  Thanks again



ok


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## DocAElstein

Jon von der Heyden said:


> In your opinion - how important are Excel forum's?
> 
> ...........




How important are Excel forum's?

      …. After a frustrating week trying to find out how Excel is working.. I am wondering if Forums like this do their part to help ensure the existence of mankind!!  - meant a bit light hearted.. but….
.    I spent a week doing tedious experiments and in parallel have been reading articles written by experienced users sharing their results from their similar “Experiments”. - All to the end of trying to find out how VBA is doing a few things!
.    I am continuously amazed that often no-one knows for sure. I naively thought someone wrote the program Excel once and knew roughly how it worked. Clearly it is not the case. The people who started it have probably “moved on” and forgotten what they did and those people that take it over and add bits don’t fully understand how the existing stuff works!!
.    I expect the number of experts that come close to understanding how Excel actually works is very few. And many of them seem to be active in Forums like these, generously sharing their knowledge.
.    So that makes maybe Forums like this with the generous sharing of that  knowledge essential to the existence of mankind. If these people do not keep sharing their knowledge then we will lose control and Computers will take over us.. 

Alan


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## Zack Barresse

All true, and scary thoughts Alan.


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## aarroyo

I am brand new to this place and I am glad I found it. I was struggling very hard at work to get the grasp of excel and use it to its full potential. This place has helped me out multiple times and even gotten me a few bonuses. Thanks a lot to all contributors.


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## cyrilbrd

Jon von der Heyden said:


> ...do you believe that you could have attained your Excel knowledge from only books, perhaps a course or two, and by trial-and-error?


I learned to use spreadsheet on Lotus 1.2.3 on a remote island where the only means of communication was a VHF radio, the only source of knowledge back then was a battered book (a bible) covering all kind of topics except what we needed. This situation evolved from Excel 95 to Excel 98 then to Excel 2003 and to Excel for mac X till 2008 where we got a better radio... Finally with Excel for mac 2011 the VHF radio was replaced with a satellite phone... but still no internet. It is in 2012 that I discovered (sounds like a cave man story?) that numerous 'Excel Forums' existed and were a vast source of answers and the easiest solution to learn something... Trial and error (mostly error) was the only way back then, but nowadays I would say that a forum is by far the most convenient way of learning / experimenting and getting advise from seasoned users.





Jon von der Heyden said:


> How about the professional Excel consultants out there?  Finance / business skills aside - do you think that they could possess the requisite skills without forum interaction?


Some threads are extremely interesting as they would gather the opinions of such professional or experienced users (one does not warrant the other) however it would be impossible to determine if their knowledge is the resultant of studies / hands-on training or to their consistent and abundant contribution to a forum. I would tend to think that your knowledge is limited not only by the tools you use but by your willingness to learn from others.




Jon von der Heyden said:


> Is forum lurking enough - or do you think that forum contribution (getting your hands dirty), is imperative?


...Qui Scribit Bis Legit...
Interaction and more importantly question asking may accelerate one's comprehension, but the capability to communicate or shall I say to formulate a question eloquently might be the back bone of getting correct answers.


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## Michael M

This forum has saved my sorry butt on many occasions, so I believed that I had to "put back in"
I'm now an Excel addict...is that a good or bad thing?
My peers in the workplace, which we have over 6000, regularly come to me with their Excel issues.
Without forums like this one, I'd never have ventured into VBA or any formula beyond SUM

Keep up the great work....all of you posters !!!


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## My Aswer Is This

I started using Excel in the mid 80’s using Excel 4.0. I loved creating Macros. In the early 90’s Excel scripting language changed dramatically and I was lost. As the years passed I got back into writing scripts building UserForms and more. I’m still not as good as a lot of folks here but I love the challenge. I’m also an Excel junkie. I enjoy helping people here on this forum as best I can. If you’re reading this and have not got into scripting you should look into it. You will be amazed at what you can do with scripting. I’m still trying to figure out how to get Excel to make coffee for me.


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