# how to make this forum better



## monkeynuts (Nov 22, 2004)

do you think this can be made better if only good excelers reply to questions? or have two forums - one specialy fro mvps?

Is it good if anyone sais a reply even if its is no help?

I think I upset people the other day but only saying that answers need to be the right answers. i didnt mean to be not kind. but i think i said fair.

But is it like when you phone help line? you need the right help right?


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## Norie (Nov 22, 2004)

The help proviced here is free. There can sometimes be more than 1 answer to a question.

If somebody posts something that you consider to be 'wrong' then don't use it.

Many people on this board started out as novices and learned from what others posted - both 'right' and 'wrong' answers.


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## Cbrine (Nov 22, 2004)

> Is it good if anyone sais a reply even if its is no help?



The other thing to remember, is that clairity explaining the problem, is also half of the equation.  If you can't explain the problem clearly, you are not going to get a good answer. GIGO.  There is no end to talent on this board, and I've learn a great deal from user's here.  MVP's and regular users.

Cal[/quote]


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## monkeynuts (Nov 22, 2004)

ok, But if the answers are not good, why n ot fair for me to say so?  I mean, if this is a true forum for knowledge - and someone is not a help, i can show that is so, right? Also, if theres difficult in speaking english then its not fair to blame bad "clairity explaining the problem".

I did not want to start arguments, but thought i was not answered fair when i needed help.  Thats why I say best left to mvps - but its good to hear your opinion - perhaps i made mistakes.


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## Cbrine (Nov 22, 2004)

Monkeynuts,
  As you stated, I'm not trying to be insulting.  I'm trying to explain that it takes two to tango.  Both parts of the communication are important.  If's there's any lack of clairity, you get the wrong solution(I'm not saying there was).  As far as telling somebody they are wrong, then go ahead and tell them they didn't give you the solution you were looking for, and try explaining more clearly, what the end result should be.  Remember, we are all doing this on our own time.  If you think it might be a language barrier issue, try posting to the international forum, and see if anyone can help you there.

HTH
Cal


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## Von Pookie (Nov 22, 2004)

monkeynuts said:
			
		

> ok, But if the answers are not good, why n ot fair for me to say so?



Posting a reply explaning why what someone posted isn't helping you is fair and perfectly normal. However, you don't have to be rude about it. Replying to someone who gave you a completely polite, helpful answer and telling them to "go away" and then arguing about it is not the way to get help.

There will most likely be quite a few instances where someone may tell you to look at something in the Excel help files. It is still help. That person knows the answer you want is located there, and is trying to help you learn on your own instead of having it done for you.


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## Richie(UK) (Nov 22, 2004)

Hi,

1. If only MVPs were allowed to answer questions then there would be a lot of unanswered questions!  There simply aren't enough MVPs to answer all the questions asked.

2. There are a great many talented Excel users that frequent this board - not all of them are MVPs.

3. People don't deliberately post wrong answers.  If somebody does post an answer that is clearly wrong then it should be pointed out to them (tactfully) - this will enable them to learn from the post as well.

4. Who determines whether people are 'good' at Excel? You?  What if somebody that you don't class as 'good' happens to have resolved the problem that you are now facing - will you ignore their advice?

5. And finally - this is a FREE forum.  If you feel that you have not received a satisfactory response then:

a) Consider whether you have clearly specified the nature of your problem.  
b) Ask for a refund!


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## The Tamer (Nov 22, 2004)

Hello Monkeynuts,

The presence of an answer from myself to your post is not meant to antagonize you, but I thought I’d let you know what I do for a living:

I train Microsoft Excel in a building of around 2,500 staff.  Though this may come as a surprise to you and others on this forum, it is nevertheless true.  I do not have the same level of knowledge as many of the contributors to this board, and this is something I freely acknowledge.  But I have enough know-how to train people to a standard that our business considers necessary.

So I guess that what a person considers “good” is subjective.  There will certainly be some people who have been helped by my posts, and others who won’t have.  But as has been said, it is then up to you to try out what has been suggested and use the most effective solution.

As a Development Trainer, my experience is that the method of getting a person to work for an answer is actually very effective.  Firstly because you will be more likely to retain what you’ve learned, and, secondly, you will get used to using the very resourceful help files for yourself.

Having said that, there are times when you just don’t have time to research – and so this forum is an excellent source of help. So enjoy!


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## adaytay (Nov 22, 2004)

Just my additional 2 cents:

Every single member here works (I assume) for an employer, and additionally spends time here as a volunteer. This is free advice you're getting.  I appreciate you may be having a bad day but I would be offended if you'd spoken to me like that.

(And if you'd done that on *my* board, I'd have banned you immediately)

Ad


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## PaddyD (Nov 22, 2004)

My 2 cents, given that the point hasn't been made.  

Insisting on only "correct" solutions (something that strikes me as a logically impossible condition - how do you know they're right until they're posted up & assessed?) would seriously limit the usefulness of the board to you by removing opportunities for serendipitous discovery.  The answer may be 'wrong' for your current need but exactly what you want for another problem; maybe this "wrong" answer hasn't been posted before, but is nevertheless a solution to a problem that someone else has; maybe it's not a total solution to your problem, but the new approach it takes gets you thinking of more effective solutions to other problems.  

In summary, the suggestion is undesirable and, more importantly, impossible to enforce.


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## elgringo56 (Nov 22, 2004)

I am a true novice.  I sometimes try to answer a question, to the best of my knowledge.  Then, I check back on the question to see if others have posted answers and compare them to mine.  This often showes me where my thinking is in error and has helped me to learn new "tricks" to get theings done.  Once in a great while, I have even found that my answer was truly a good one(not often, though).  My point is, often the person answering is also trying to learn, so dont be to hard on them.


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## Smitty (Nov 22, 2004)

If you only want the "correct" answer then hire a consultant.  www.consult@mrexcel.com

Even then, there are several ways to skin a cat in Excel/VBA.

Oftentimes seeing alternative opinions not only helps you learn and apply different approaches/methods, but other forum members as well; do you want to deprive everyone of the combined thoughts & contributions of the board?

This could be a fascist or dictatorial environment, but I don't think much would get done then...

Take a look at any other message board like this one and I think that you'll find that free speech abounds.  I'd have it no other way.  (By the way, the forum moderators/admins here are very flexible; I doubt that you'd even get a hardy-har-har from Microsoft..)

My 2 cents anyway.

Smitty


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## The Tamer (Nov 23, 2004)

> My 2 cents anyway





> Just my additional 2 cents





> My 2 cents, given that the point hasn't been made


Who get's to keep all this money?  Can I have it?!


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## Andrew Fergus (Nov 23, 2004)

I thought this was a very good point from "The Tamer" and needed repeating :



> the method of getting a person to work for an answer is actually very effective. Firstly because you will be more likely to retain what you’ve learned, and, secondly, you will get used to using the very resourceful help files for yourself.



Andrew.


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## steve case (Nov 24, 2004)

Give a man a fish and he'll ......but teach him to fish and......

Great advice.  

I agree with elgringo56's post of 22 Nov 2004 18:35 .  I'd like to add to it that I want to give back some of what I have received here.  I've "Built" quite a few little Exel toys now for folks to use on the job.  I simply could not have put these thing together without those formulas and little snipets of code necessary to make them go.  I get those snipets and formulas here!

I do tell folks that I'm a newby to this stuff and that while what I'm sharing with them might work, it quite probably might not be the most elegant way to get the job done.  

I will say this though, if the credentials listed; Board Master, MVP etc meant something more tangible than just the number of posts, a person could gain better insight into the value of the answer posted.


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## Von Pookie (Nov 24, 2004)

StACase said:
			
		

> I will say this though, if the credentials listed; Board Master, MVP etc meant something more tangible than just the number of posts, a person could gain better insight into the value of the answer posted.



Actually, the MVP title has nothing to do with the number of posts. It's a special designation.

As for the other titles, those are more just for "fun," than anything tangible. Although remember they do say *Board* Master, not Excel Master


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## XL-Dennis (Nov 24, 2004)

Monkeynuts 

Your alias seems to reflect Your behaviour 

The best way to *not* get any help at all on a public free forum is to clearly express Your disappointed over an answer
or lack of answers. 

Richie(UK) - I have refunded the points & money 

adaytay,



> Every single member here works (I assume) for an employer, and additionally spends time here as a volunteer.



I´ve informed Your boss so he knows where You are and why he need to hire me instead 

Take care everyone (including monkeynuts)


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## The Tamer (Nov 25, 2004)

> I will say this though, if the credentials listed; Board Master, MVP etc meant something more tangible than just the number of posts, a person could gain better insight into the value of the answer posted.



This isn't always going to be relavent though, StACase. To give an (admittedly oversimplified) example:

OP posts question: “What’s the best way to average all the numbers in a range?”.

The answer, “Use AVERAGE()”, is going to be the same from an MVP as it is from a complete novice. Thus the novice’s answer has no less “value” than that of the expert.

Yesterday I posted a question where I got two answers within seconds of each other.  The first sent a formula that I understood, and it exactly matched my needs.  The second sent a more compact version of the same formula which also worked perfectly.  But without the benefit of the first, I wouldn’t really have understood what I was reading in the second.

So, personally, I’m glad that this forum is as it is, because a lot of great answers might potentially have been ignored by OPs who put too much sway on the “credentials” of the helper.


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## Glaswegian (Nov 25, 2004)

> Yesterday I posted a question where I got two answers within seconds of each other.



..which surely demonstrates the power of this Board to help anyone who asks, no matter the question, no matter the level of knowledge. The knowledge is freely shared and may just as freely be ignored.



> As for the other titles, those are more just for "fun,"



...just as well because it's taken me a hell of long time to work out how to use the url tags properly. 

(Although I may still have a problem with the 'quote' ones....)


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## Cbrine (Nov 26, 2004)

Glaswegian,



> ...just as well because it's taken me a hell of long time to work out how to use the url tags properly.



   You must not have had the pleasure of using WordPerfect 5.1, otherwise the tags here would be easy for you


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## monkeynuts (Dec 3, 2004)

Well i think you all have other ideas if you go to fix your car and man who fixes uses way that works bad - when other could fix better.

but i hear your thoughts


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## WillR (Dec 3, 2004)

> Well i think you all have other ideas if you go to fix your car and man who fixes uses way that works bad - when other could fix better.



That happens anyway here in the UK *and* you pay the guy to fix it badly   

You get good & bad service, whether you pay for it or not - that's life. I think the service here and at other "free" boards is pretty good, seeing as they are all self-regulating   

Cheers!


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## The Tamer (Dec 3, 2004)

We also have people in this country who will take their car to a mechanic to be fixed. The mechanic will do a perfectly good job, but the customer will try to find fault with the mechanic because he is prone to complaining about everything.


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## Glaswegian (Dec 3, 2004)

The Tamer said:
			
		

> We also have people in this country who will take their car to a mechanic to be fixed. The mechanic will do a perfectly good job, but the customer will try to find fault with the mechanic because he is prone to complaining about everything.



I'm very interested in *any* mechanic who can do a perfectly good job - where is he????   

Regards


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## The Tamer (Dec 3, 2004)

Perfection is relative my friend.

Take my mother, for instance - her son's perfect!


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## litrelord (Dec 3, 2004)

> if you go to fix your car and man who fixes uses way that works bad - when other could fix better



But as everyone keeps saying, and to use your analogy, if you give your car to a friend to take a look at and they do you a favour by telling you how to fix it for free then you can't complain if they don't fix it the same way a paid mechanic would.

You might not ask for your friends advice again but then you'd miss out because the next time your car had a problem he might know the best way to fix it.

It doesn't matter which analogy you use. At the end of the day it's free advice and if you don't use the answer that was given this time you might still learn something from it. If you also get the answer you wanted then you've got two for the price of one which is a pretty good deal when it's free in the first place if you ask me.

Nick


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