# 7 Surefire Ways to Guarantee Business Failure



## Smitty (Apr 16, 2009)

OK, with all that's been going on recently, having left a Fortune 500 company to go to a Fortune <0 company, I decided to write a bit about it.

I hope you find it amusing and look forward to being able to add to it:

7 Surefire Ways to Guarantee Business Failure


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 16, 2009)

Like it, Smitty!

Another possible business tip... Marketing.

Get people from an overseas call centre to call former clients with thinly veiled ploys that sound like benefits, and refuse to take "no" for an answer. The more pressure the better. Why overseas call centres? Well, they cost less than local ones so you get to hold on to more of your REVENUE.

A major telco in my neck of the woods is in the middle of this at the moment.

Denis


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## PaddyD (Apr 16, 2009)

It has often been my view that many companies would be more profitable without either customers or staff.


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 16, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> It has often been my view that many companies would be more profitable without either customers or staff.


 
...Especially if they were based in a tax haven.

Denis


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## Smitty (Apr 17, 2009)

I like the ideas.  



SydneyGeek said:


> ...Especially if they were based in a tax haven.


 
A call center based in Grand Cayman?

Or even better, my last company put one in Manila...


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## Andrew Fergus (Apr 17, 2009)

And if the call centre is servicing an English speaking country, only employ people in the overseas call centre for whom English is a 2nd language.

The other brilliant idea is to build a business where your primary focus is counting the number of 'unique browser hits' to your website.  Oh and don't worry about the revenue because the business plan says that will come later........yeah right!


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## Smitty (Apr 17, 2009)

Here in the US, you would be amazed at how many companies' (notably the phone companies like Sprint) automated systems start with:

"To continue in English, press 1"...

No thanks, lets keep it exciting, why don't we continue in whatever language your call center uses?


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 17, 2009)

Andrew Fergus said:


> And if the call centre is servicing an English speaking country, only employ people in the overseas call centre for whom English is a 2nd language.


Just for kicks, get them to pretend that they are actually local



Andrew Fergus said:


> The other brilliant idea is to build a business where your primary focus is counting the number of 'unique browser hits' to your website. Oh and don't worry about the revenue because the business plan says that will come later........yeah right!


 You're not suggesting that once you've spent a few thousand bucks on your snazzy site, you need to actually _do_ anything to generate revenue? D*mn, that's where I went wrong!



Smitty said:


> Here in the US, you would be amazed at how many companies' (notably the phone companies like Sprint) automated systems start with:
> 
> "To continue in English, press 1"...
> 
> No thanks, lets keep it exciting, why don't we continue in whatever language your call center uses?


And to make it _really_ fun, make the user guess which language is the default.

Denis


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## Andrew Fergus (Apr 17, 2009)

SydneyGeek said:


> You're not suggesting that once you've spent a few thousand bucks on your snazzy site, you need to actually _do_ anything to generate revenue? D*mn, that's where I went wrong!


Gidday Denis

Insofar as I am aware there is only one "website" that has consistently produced super-normal returns from advertising online on the basis of the number of users visiting their website.  No prizes for guessing that is Google....although I'd be happy to be proved wrong!  I believe Facebook has in excess of 200m users and they still aren't making money - what hope is there for anyone else if they can't make money from online advertising???

The frustrating thing is that I see many others trying to do exactly this.....albeit on a much smaller potential user base.  As they say "you can lead a horse to water.....".  Personally I thought that model of business went out in the 90's but it is still all around us and it seems failure on every measurable aspect is no reason to stop trying! 

Cheers
Andrew


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 17, 2009)

Andrew Fergus said:


> Gidday Denis
> 
> Insofar as I am aware there is only one "website" that has consistently produced super-normal returns from advertising online on the basis of the number of users visiting their website. No prizes for guessing that is Google....although I'd be happy to be proved wrong! I believe Facebook has in excess of 200m users and they still aren't making money - what hope is there for anyone else if they can't make money from online advertising???
> 
> ...


 
Hi Andrew

Yeah I know -- the Adwords thing is OK for pulling in a bit of income (so I hear) but to make money from a site you actually have to provide a service / product that people are prepared to pay you for. 

Amazing how people think a 'brochure' site is going to be the end of all their business problems, about 12 years after that stopped being the case. 

How's life treating you at the moment?

Denis


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## Stormseed (Apr 17, 2009)

PaddyD said:


> It has often been my view that many companies would be more profitable without either customers or staff.


 
2 Questions (just anxious)
If a company is "Without Customers", how would it generate revenue (nothing to sell ?)

If a company is "Without Staff", how would it manage to handle the volumes of business generated ?


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## xld (Apr 17, 2009)

SydneyGeek said:


> Just for kicks, get them to pretend that they are actually local



I was cold called by an Indian lady once and so I asked her where she was calling from, so she said just outside of London. I pressed and asked where just outside of London, and she obviously said the only other place she knew in England, Stratford. Stratford might be just outside of London to an Indian where distances are huge, but not to an Englishman. At least she didn't say Liverpool, but I still hung up!


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## xld (Apr 17, 2009)

Stormseed said:


> 2 Questions (just anxious)
> If a company is "Without Customers", how would it generate revenue (nothing to sell ?)
> 
> If a company is "Without Staff", how would it manage to handle the volumes of business generated ?



Customers and staff cause problems. Eliminate one, the profits soar, eliminate both - no problems, limitless profits.


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## xld (Apr 17, 2009)

Andrew Fergus said:


> Gidday Denis
> 
> Insofar as I am aware there is only one "website" that has consistently produced super-normal returns from advertising online on the basis of the number of users visiting their website.  No prizes for guessing that is Google....although I'd be happy to be proved wrong!  I believe Facebook has in excess of 200m users and they still aren't making money - what hope is there for anyone else if they can't make money from online advertising???



Google is the world's biggest parasite, living off of the back of others efforts, and creaming off all of the life-blood (revenue). They are symptomatic of all that is wrong with modern capitalism.


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## snowblizz (Apr 17, 2009)

xld said:


> Customers and staff cause problems. Eliminate one, the profits soar, eliminate both - no problems, limitless profits.


Yup. A perfect TPB* solution.


*The Pointyhaired Boss (from the Dilbert comic)


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## Stormseed (Apr 17, 2009)

> Yup. A perfect TPB* solution


 
Don't you guys think that you all use a lot of slang and code words ? What is TPB ?


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## Stormseed (Apr 17, 2009)

xld said:


> I was cold called by an Indian lady once and so I asked her where she was calling from, so she said just outside of London. I pressed and asked where just outside of London, and she obviously said the only other place she knew in England, Stratford. Stratford might be just outside of London to an Indian where distances are huge, but not to an Englishman. At least she didn't say Liverpool, but I still hung up!


 
I accept till time India was the gateway for Outsourced Business but the government here is now developing such policies which would either stop the foreign companies from outsourcing in India or they will have to pay very heavily for labour. 

The most cheapest of labour, you get it in China and nowhere else in the world.


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## RoryA (Apr 17, 2009)

Stormseed said:


> Don't you guys think that you all use a lot of slang and code words ? What is TPB ?


 
See the bottom of that same post...


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## arkusM (Apr 17, 2009)

Stormseed,
Snowblizz noted the TPB is "*The Pointyhaired Boss (from the Dilbert comic) "
I have see this shortened to PHB as well... but =W=

Cheers!
Mark


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## Stormseed (Apr 17, 2009)

arkusM said:


> Stormseed,
> I have see this shortened to PHB as well... but =W=
> 
> Cheers!
> Mark


 
Again a bouncer 

Also, the baby you have in your avatar, I guess he is your kid and he looks absolutely adorable just like Jon's daughter 

Rory, I never realized it and I thought about it as his signature (at a glance)


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## arkusM (Apr 17, 2009)

Stormseed said:


> Again a bouncer
> 
> Also, the baby you have in your avatar, I guess he is your kid and he looks absolutely adorable just like Jon's daughter
> 
> Rory, I never realized it and I thought about it as his signature (at a glance)


 
Yup that is my boy. He is 10 months old.
People say that he looks just like a mini version of me, so in a way I am holding onto my youth!! LOL.
(=W= means whatever!!)
http://www.netlingo.com/acronyms.php : here is a list of these sort of things. Also google Leet or 1337. Leet/1337 is an emerging language used buy Teens(+/-) to communicate electronically under the radar.

Cheers!


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## arkusM (Apr 17, 2009)

Smitty said:


> OK, with all that's been going on recently, having left a Fortune 500 company to go to a Fortune <0 company, I decided to write a bit about it.
> 
> I hope you find it amusing and look forward to being able to add to it:
> 
> 7 Surefire Ways to Guarantee Business Failure


 

Very funny Smitty... 
You have a lot of time on your hands!! 
Good luck to you (based on the past few posts in the lounge)

Cheers.

M


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## schielrn (Apr 17, 2009)

Stormseed said:


> The most cheapest of labour, you get it in China and nowhere else in the world.


Yes, our company has now began the outsourcing to China and sort of eliminating the middle man.

Whereas, funny to me at least, we outsource some A/P work to Krakow, Poland and then in turn they outsource, our outsourced work to China we come to find out, so now I guess they realize they can cut out the middle man here.


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## barry houdini (Apr 19, 2009)

SydneyGeek said:


> Just for kicks, get them to pretend that they are actually local


 
Didn't one call centre, working on behalf of a UK company, allegedly "train" its staff in English "culture", speech etc. by getting them to watch "Eastenders" ["I believe it's a popular BBC "soap opera", M'lud"]


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## Smitty (Apr 19, 2009)

I had a poster some time ago send me a call center scheduling workbook he needed some help with; the names were all anglican, like Barry, Bob, Sue, Fred, etc.  We chatted a bit and I found out he was acutally in Mumbai, and the US parent forced the outsourced Indian employees to take "American" names...

We both had a bit of a laugh over how ridiculous that was...


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## Stormseed (Apr 19, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I had a poster some time ago send me a call center scheduling workbook he needed some help with; the names were all anglican, like Barry, Bob, Sue, Fred, etc.  We chatted a bit and I found out he was acutally in Mumbai, and the US parent forced the outsourced Indian employees to take "American" names...
> 
> We both had a bit of a laugh over how ridiculous that was...



That is very true. Around 7 years back I used to work for DELL in a call center here in Mumbai. I was in the DELL CCOD Department (DELL Intraday MIS) and I did not take calls but I have seen all of the people in MSN Technical Support who used to take calls in the same call center. All of them had *screen names* (American Names) and none of them had their real actual names while making calls. The trainers in these call centers train employees for American Culture, develop their listening skills, train them on accent, etc. so that they can pretend to be a local whilst talking to an American.


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## snowblizz (Apr 20, 2009)

arkusM said:


> Stormseed,
> Snowblizz noted the TPB is "*The Pointyhaired Boss (from the Dilbert comic) "
> I have see this shortened to PHB as well... but =W=
> 
> ...


Oooh, that's right. I think I was going for that in fact. I just couldn't figure out how to get that "H" included with 3 letters. 
You are probably correct that the usual acronym is indeed PHB. I got too concentrated on the "the" part and forgot there are many more PHB bosses and not just "The One" from the comic.

I thought the 7 ways were hilarious. My favourite remains how its "revenue" that is nr 1, not profit. Revenue, while being a necessary precursor to profit doesn't necessarily equate to bottom-line profit. At least focusing obsessively on profit might keep you afloat long enough to realise the error of your ways.


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## Norie (Apr 20, 2009)

Some of the worst/funniest call centre experiences I've had have involved so-called 'native' English speakers.

I can understand somebody in Mumbai not being able to pronounce my name - first and last but somebody based in Glasgow.

Mind you it can be useful - once you've realised their problem just insist that nobody of that name lives here.

If they try listing other members of the household it's a shame they've all moved out or are on an extended trip.

And there expertise with the phonetic aphabet - J for Jam, C for Cat, R for Rodeo etc

One of the first jobs I ever had was in a call centre in the early 90s - seemed like everybody had a degree and that's the only thing they could get.


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## Smitty (Apr 20, 2009)

snowblizz said:


> I thought the 7 ways were hilarious. My favourite remains how its "revenue" that is nr 1, not profit. Revenue, while being a necessary precursor to profit doesn't necessarily equate to bottom-line profit. At least focusing obsessively on profit might keep you afloat long enough to realise the error of your ways.


 
I'll need to add to that part then; Profit completely eluded me.  

My boss and I once inherited a region that was purported to be in great shape for the upcoming year with a major customer promised to spend another 3 million+ dollars.  In reviewing the financials I find out that the previous VP had been paid a $70k bonus, and the region had actually lost $700k, but was well over its revenue goals.  Seems that the $3 million the customer spent actually cost $3.5 million to produce...


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## arkusM (Apr 20, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I'll need to add to that part then; Profit completely eluded me.
> 
> My boss and I once inherited a region that was purported to be in great shape for the upcoming year with a major customer promised to spend another 3 million+ dollars. In reviewing the financials I find out that the previous VP had been paid a $70k bonus, and the region had actually lost $700k, but was well over its revenue goals. Seems that the $3 million the customer spent actually cost $3.5 million to produce...


 

Your sig is so appropriate in light of the above post!!


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## Von Pookie (Apr 20, 2009)

Norie said:


> Mind you it can be useful - once you've realised their problem just insist that nobody of that name lives here.



We could always tell when it was a "marketing" call--they would ask for my dad, whose name is pronounced "Vern" but is spelled "Verne". They would always, ALWAYS ask for "Vernie." Didn't matter if they were from the US or not...


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## Oorang (Apr 20, 2009)

I love to play with telemarketers. I politely tell them I am not interested and ask them to remove me from their list. If the call does not end at that time I feel perfectly justified in whatever nonsense I decide to engage in


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## Smitty (Apr 20, 2009)

Oorang said:


> I love to play with telemarketers.


 
I give them the names and numbers of people I don't like.


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## Norie (Apr 20, 2009)

Another, rather sick maybe, is to tell them the person died.

Oh, how many times have they then asked for the householder -got to cover all bases.


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 20, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I give them the names and numbers of people I don't like.


 
I've got en email address that I only give to marketers and spammers. I never hear from them again...

Denis


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## snowblizz (Apr 21, 2009)

Ah. Telemarketers...

Besides the ones trying to sell me magazine subscriptions I actually had an interesting experience "recently". This past summer I was as usual working at a company in their salary office, now it was in the middle of a acquisition and merger so the organisation was mildly put fluid. The room I was sitting previously belonged to a woman who had recently left the company. However, apparently she had somekind of outward communicating funciton, with shareholders and such and was thus listed on the company pages. So suddenly the telephone is jumping off its hook with people having all sorts of wierd questions that I had no way of answering or indeed could forward to anyone, since A) I couldn't use the telephone properly and B) most people were now transferred to another phone exchange not connected to the one where I was sitting.
There was this one time I got someone, I'm guessing selling outsourcing as they sounded Indian, who wanted to talk to the IT department, and I had to tell them that I, literally, was unable to forward them there. By the sound of it they didn't quite believe me. 
In retrospect it was almost fun, but at the time vastly frustrating. Because I was reduced to a complete idiot. "No sir, I do not know who does that", "no sir, I can't connect you anywhere" etc etc. It was another perfect Dilbert moment. I'm thinking about the suggestion in "Clues for the clueless" to act like you were a temp carried into the building in a black plastic bag.


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## SydneyGeek (Apr 21, 2009)

A friend of mine used to ask telemarketers for thier personal phone numbers. When asked why, he'd reply that he wanted to be able to ring them at some inconvenient time. End of conversation...

Denis


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## Peter_SSs (Apr 21, 2009)

In Australia we now have a "Do not call register" where you can register your phone number. Telemarketers (apart from a few exceptions) are supposed to check this register before cold-calling a number or there can be negative consequences for the calling organisation - fines I guess if prosecuted. 

For me, it seems to be working very well. Rarely get any of these calls any more and if I do I press them for their organisation name, registration number etc (or that of the Australian 'employer' if they are calling from an overseas call centre) so that I can report them for breaching the "Do not call register" rules. The call usually ends quickly after that and doesn't seem to re-occur.

Before we had this register, a colleague had what I thought was quite a good system. They let their answering machine pick up every call. The message was something like .. 

"Hi, this is Peter and I'm probably at home. If you have a legitimate reason for calling, please start to speak after the tone and I will pick up. Telemarketers can use this opportunity before the tone to hang up."


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## TinaP (Apr 21, 2009)

Before I added my number to the US do not call registry, I got a call from a telemarketer that wanted to sell me windows.  Of course, she started by saying she wasn't calling to sell me anything, but her next question was "What kind of windows do you have in your home?"  I told her stained glass, which is true.  The poor woman had no idea what to say next.  Once she composed herself, she admitted, "Well, I guess you don't want new windows."

It was nice hanging up after talking to a telemarketer with the knowledge that I got the best of one of them without getting angry.


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## Expiry (Apr 21, 2009)

Smitty said:


> I like the ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At least they would get cheap envelopes.


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## DreamAlchemist (Apr 21, 2009)

I use to get TM calls from people wanting to loan me money for my home. It sounded like a scam but in the disguise of a mortgage.  I would tell them I live in an apartment (which is true) and that if they actually knew who they were calling they would save themselves some time.  I got the same kind of callwhen I lived at my grandmothers house. I am pretty sure she would not have been happy if I told her I just got 50k by putting her house on mortgage.


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## Trafficcone (Apr 22, 2009)

I always get TM calls trying to sell me Conservatries, even when i tell them I live on the 3rd floor they still keep going with it, maybe they think they can put it on stilts, or install a firemans pole for me to get to it


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## texasalynn (Apr 22, 2009)

Expiry said:


> At least they would get cheap envelopes.



  You made my day - that is hilarious


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