# Speed freak?  Mouse or KB oriented user?



## gwkenny (Jul 23, 2006)

Hi, I was weaned on spreadsheets from the dos days.

I'm extremely keyboard oriented when using menus and options.  It's a rarity for me to come across another User who operates as fast as I do (speed does not equal better though, as planning is more significant in my opinion).  If I do find someone who operates as fast as me, I find they are also very keyboard oriented when using menus and choosing options.  They touch the mouse as little as possible and only when absolutely necessary.

I tell anyone that's entering finance that the best thing they could do with regards to spreadsheets is to learn how not to use the mouse.  You'll be a gadjillion times faster, allows you to crunch more numbers which is a significant advantage over your competition.

Recently though, I've met someone who might be just as fast, if not just a little bit faster than me overall and he uses a good combination of both.  This person is definitely an anomoly, but I was just wondering how many anomolies are out there...


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## Felix Atagong (Jul 24, 2006)

There have been a few Excel tests here on this forum and they all have the same kind of questions, one of those always goes like this: what is the KB combination to (fill in a typical Excel thing).

My answer is always: I don't have a clue. really. I don't. I'm not interested in using some Ctrl-Alt-Shift-breaking-my-fingers-combination when I can slide with the mouse to one of these nice incorporated menus in Excel. OK, some of them slipped in: F2, Ctrl-C or V although that isn't really an Excel thing...

And if I do use some KB shortcuts, these are mainly just used to enter the menus (Alt-E) and then I happily scroll to the place I wannabe...

Viva El Mouse!


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## njimack (Jul 24, 2006)

I used to use keyboard shortcuts wherever possible, but several of the add-ins I have installed don't have shortcuts as default, and I didn't want to start setting up obscure combinations of Alt+Shift+Ctrl, etc.

So for any often-used command, I now create an icon on my toolbar (having removed most of the default icons which were seldom used).  My toolbars now consist of 3 rows of icons, most of which I've added.  The only problem with this approach is that depending on where I add new icons, some of the others shift to the right, which takes a while to get used to!


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## Greg Truby (Jul 24, 2006)

I too cut most of my programming teeth in the days of DOS (and before -- ever loaded a program from a cassette tape?).  Indeed, I can remember IBM rolling out it's "PC". _That_ was a really big deal.  (Never quite understood why IBM went with those squirrely Charlie Chaplin ads.)

As for our modern interfaces... if using a mouse for a particular task is quicker, then of course I use it.  But for the most part it's all keyboard.  And like yourself, I very seldom meet anyone that can give me a run for my money in getting around in the app.  When I am helping someone and we're at their desk, I try to always let them "drive" since they tend to retain the information longer than if I just sit down and whip through it. Many's the time that when I say "copy and paste"; they will right-click and pick _copy_ off the popup and then right-click again to pick _paste_ when we get to the destination cell(s).  I used to try to tell them that _Ctrl-C_ and _Ctrl-V_ were quicker, but any more I just look away and focus on not grinding my teeth.   (How many remember the even older Ctrl+Insert to copy and Shift+Insert to paste?  They still work, ya know.)


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## TrippyTom (Jul 24, 2006)

Not to get off-topic, but Office2007 and the new "ribbon" interface caters to mouse users.  Yes, the old keyboard shortcuts still work, but it's not as apparent as it is in 2003 with the underscore character showing the hotkey combos.

Yet another reason to hate the new version coming out.


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## litrelord (Jul 25, 2006)

I’m definitely a combo kinda guy.  There aren’t many things I can’t do in excel with the keyboard but it depends where my hand is at the time.  If I’m doing a pivot table I’ll use the mouse and will usually carry on using the mouse until something drastically quicker using the keyboard.

Usually I’ve either got both hands on the keyboard or right hand on the mouse and left on the keyboard.  I think the real skill isn’t knowing all the keyboard shortcuts but knowing when it’s better to just use the mouse instead.

Oh, and we still use Ctrl/Shift+Ins for copy and paste on our ancient unix-based-sure-it’s-stable-but-feels-like-it-will-break-anyday-in-house system.  I find it more convenient than Ctrl+C/V but I don’t touch type so maybe that’s why.

Nick


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## gingerafro (Jul 26, 2006)

I'm not sure how 'quick' I am, but whenever I demonstrate something on Excel, I get described as 'Whizzy'.  So, as with Greg, I let others drive as much as possible so I don't have to show them again 4 days later.

I think that unless you were brought up on keyobard mentality (I'm to young to remember CTRL/SHIFT + INS), you tend to rely on the mouse.  I use CTRL + C/V, but there are at least 3 ways to copy and paste in Excel.  New learners who go on a course, will all get taught to use the toolbars/menus because it makes the teaching consistent.  Its only afterwards, when you are comfortable that you discover the shortcuts.

For info, my use of keyboard/mouse for my most common tasks is as follows:
Selecting Cells:  Mouse
Pivot Tables:      Mouse
Formulas:          Write with keyboards (not using the function box)
Copy/Paste:      Keyboard
Run a macro:     Keyboard (Alt+F8)
Open VBE:         KEyboard (Alt + F11)


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## milesUK (Jul 27, 2006)

The mouse/kb argumanet should not be all speed related. Sometimes tasks can not be done with the keyboard at all. Does anyone know if you can use autofilter without the mouse? In other cases, such as resizing a chart or graphic I persoanlly would not dream of looking for a kb s/c. However I do look in the manual or scour the net for such information

We used to use a cad application for electricity network modelling. Left hand on the kb for 95% of the commands and right hand on mouse to point to the items you want to act on. Now its gone to full GUI with a few, undocumented, legacy Alt key alternatives and productivity has dropped off significantly. A key pres is just that; you know where it and hand/eye coordination is unnecessary. The hand& eye are required though to open a menu, move to an item with a modicum of precision and click the button.

My concern is that eventually the best (quickest!) way of operating software (& hardware) will be lost forever (as mentioned earlier, its easier just to teach the GUI). As fewer & fewer users learn shortcut's, and other better ways, the designers will drop them completely.


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## litrelord (Jul 27, 2006)

Autofilter can be turned on usng the menu shortcust Alt+d > F > F which sounds quicker than it looks.  As always you need to make sure that you've selected the entire range you want to filter if there are gaps.  

For me, doing a find on a column then switching on autofilter with that cell selected (so it automatically filters the list to the contents of that cell) has been a lifesave many a time.  But then I use autofilters for everything so maybe I'm biased.

Nick


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## Greg Truby (Jul 27, 2006)

Actually I do _Alt+D, F, F_ all the time.  The other part that Nick left off is to use _Alt+DownArrow_ to pop open the items list as you hop around the header row.  

Nick, if you activate Autofilter from the menu with a data cell selected, Excel uses that as the criteria???  For me the only way to do what you describe is indeed with the mouse: I must use the Autofilter button on the standard toolbar.


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## litrelord (Jul 27, 2006)

It's true, I'm pretty dumb and confused 

Was thinking as I wrote it about alt+down arroe and then didn't type it and got my wires crossed with the auto-select thingy.  Shame there's no built in button to remove autofilter though (changing the subject to something other than my ignorance).


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## gwkenny (Jul 28, 2006)

> I used to use keyboard shortcuts wherever possible, but several of the add-ins I have installed don't have shortcuts as default, and I didn't want to start setting up obscure combinations of Alt+Shift+Ctrl, etc.



Actually, the keyboard shortcuts I use are mostly using ALT to access the menus.  I also create a lot of add-ins.  The way I get around that is to create new menus on my toolbars and not buttons, thus they are easily accessible by keyboard as well.

_______________________________

When the mouse really started catching on, I thought hard about switching.  But I can literally do 3 things in the time it took for me to move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse (I use to touchtype over 120 wpm.  Now I'm about 70 I'd guess) and get it into position.

Yes, there are certain things you have to use the mouse.  Pivot Tables, graphs... but most things are accessible by keyboard.

Sorry, I didn't mean this poll as a slag on mouses.  There's just no way you could have objects on your worksheet and do graphs without a mouse.  The poll is meant solely about speed and getting things done.

For example, just moving around with Ctrl-[ and Ctrl-] can't be beat if they'll take you where you want to go.
________________________________

I like gingerafro's idea of listing tasks and indicating what you use.  Wish I thought of that.  The poll would be better for it.  Maybe I (or someone else) will put up another poll after giving some thought on what would be good tasks.
________________________________

I used to use Emacs.  I remember when emacs users were laughing at dos WordPerfect and Word and what they were promoting as WYSIWYG.  Gahhh!!!!


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## Greg Truby (Jul 28, 2006)

> ...I use to touchtype over 120 wpm.  Now I'm about 70 I'd guess...
> -gwkenny


  Even if you're "puttering" along at 70 wpm that beats the soup outta me.  I can't recall exactly what my scores were back in high-school typing class but they sure as heck weren't 120 wpm!  



> ...as a slag on mouses...
> -gwkenny


<ul>[*]mouse --> mice[*]louse --> lice[*]house--> hice??? [/list]


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## Zack Barresse (Aug 8, 2006)

I'm a combo kinda guy, although it's probably more centered around the keyboard.  I like my keyboard shortcuts.  

And it's not necessarily a good thing to type 110+ wpm.  I end up having to type up everyone's memos ("Oh, you're good with a keyboard?  hehehe..")


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