# Practically writing a project for people...



## gallen (Sep 8, 2016)

Wondered what some if your thoughts are on this.

I've used this forum to learn and recently I've been using it to teach, helping out where I can (which in turn is a great learning tool for me as I'm solving problems I haven't come across yet)

I have no issue helping people out with broken code, even suggesting code for a problem they can't quite fathom.

However, there are a few people in the forums that just give you the situation and expect you to write the fully tested code for them. In essence over time they get a bespoke solution for nothing. I've helped a few with some code I was even proud of myself but with little more than a thank you, they get a great service!

You see people posting multiple threads all based around a workbook(s) they are trying to create/improve so they can get a solution that has taken me months and months to learn how to do.


What prompted this was, I received a paypal payment for £6 out of the blue, as a 'thank you' from a guy I'd spent the time to solve his issue for him. Just with a note saying get a drink on me and thanks for your help. I was made up and actually bought the drink and **** well enjoyed it with a smile on my face.

I don't make a living in anyway from VBA/Excel (I'm a planner for a flooring manufacturers) *so how do you guys that do make a living from it, feel about this?

*I've learned to stay away from those guys who are obviously expecting it and even get quite short when you struggle to understand / solve their issue but wondered how the more experienced members of the forum have dealt with it.


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## Joe4 (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes, this site is designed to help people learn, and help them with specific questions/issues.  Unfortunately, whether intentionally or not, some people really have no interest in learning and are hoping to have a program/project completed for free.  That is not what this site is designed for.  I point those people to MrExcels' Consulting Services.  Some of our members here also do Consulting work (though I personally do not).

Occasionally, we also sometimes get some people who are looking to learn, but unfortunately are looking to be taught Excel/Access from scratch.  The structure of forums like this are really not conducive to a training site.

I often get appreciative people ask me if they can compensate me for work already done.  I point them to rule #5 here, and just tell them to try to pay it forward someday, or make a donation to their favorite charity.  Obviously, in your instance, you did not request any payment, and none was promised ahead of time, so there was really not much you could do about that.


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## RoryA (Sep 8, 2016)

I used to take on pretty much any VBA question in forums, regardless of complexity, since I usually learned something along the way. These days I don't have the time - or inclination, frankly - to answer questions that are basically "I need this" with no evidence of having tried anything themselves, but I know there are likely to be others that will take them on, just as I used to. Not really much anyone can do about that and I don't think there is anything that _should be_ done in all honesty.

Although you might get a free application from a forum like this, I'd pretty much guarantee it won't be a great one, and not as good as a professional should be able to provide with proper planning, consultation and documentation etc.

We do also have people who are clearly contractors/consultants posting on here when they get stuck, so I'm not sure they could complain too much.


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## gallen (Sep 9, 2016)

Joe4 said:


> Occasionally, we also sometimes get some people who are looking to learn, but unfortunately are looking to be taught Excel/Access from scratch.  The structure of forums like this are really not conducive to a training site.



100% Though I had zero excel knowledge before I started visiting here I had a good knowledge of VB 6 giving me a great starting point for vba. I just knew that the spreadsheets at work could be SO much better and set about learning so I could improve them. My efforts in doing that got me promoted and I still help improve the company's procedures.

Also, as you signature says, I learnt a lot by using the macro recorder even if it does write horrible code, understanding it was the main point then you could make it much clearer.


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## gallen (Sep 9, 2016)

Just had a read through a couple of the zero replies and this is exactly the type of post I mean:



> Macro to print first 2 pages of current sheet as pdf and email
> 
> Hey there,
> 
> ...



Even a simple solution like that, to be written by people who have spent their own time and money learning how to do it for no more than thank you...

Having said that I'm guessing few people will reply if any.


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## Peter_SSs (Sep 9, 2016)

gallen said:


> What prompted this was, I received a paypal payment for £6 out of the blue, as a 'thank you' from a guy I'd spent the time to solve his issue for him.


In this forum?


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## gallen (Sep 9, 2016)

Yes. He posted an issue here and it was too complex to do just on forum posts and he sent me his project via email. We got chatting via email over several days and I solved his issue for him, but the inital contact was here. I understand Joe's point and I guess in future I'll return it or ask them to donate it.


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## Peter_SSs (Sep 9, 2016)

gallen said:


> Yes. He posted an issue here and it was too complex to do just on forum posts and he sent me his project via email. We got chatting via email over several days and I solved his issue for him, but the inital contact was here. I understand Joe's point and I guess in future I'll return it or ask them to donate it.


So, really forum rules #4 and #5 have been breached here. I disagree with Joe's comment that there wasn't much you could do about the payment - the payment could not have been made without you providing PayPal details to the OP. And the discussion could not have been taken off-forum without you providing your contact details.

I'm not suggesting the fault is all yours but I'm assuming you are a longer-term forum member than the particular OP and therefore should be more likely to be aware of the rules. In future I would suggest that you do not allow the question to be taken off-forum to private email in the first place, per rule #4. If the question is too complex to discuss on-forum then it is too complex for the forum.


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## gallen (Sep 9, 2016)

Fair point, and he sent it to the email address at paypal.

The only reason he sent me the file by email was because I couldn't get it directly due to firewall restrictions at work.

I am a longer term member but only recently have been answering questions as opposed to asking them.

Points noted. Won't happen again.


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## Joe4 (Sep 9, 2016)

> So, really forum rules #4 and #5 have been breached here. I disagree with Joe's comment that there wasn't much you could do about the payment - the payment could not have been made without you providing PayPal details to the OP. And the discussion could not have been taken off-forum without you providing your contact details.


At the time I made my comments, I was just working off of this information.


> What prompted this was, I received a paypal payment for £6 out of the blue, as a 'thank you' from a guy I'd spent the time to solve his issue for him.


At the time, I had no idea that the question was taken off-forum.  And I didn't connect the dots regarding paypal...


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## Jon von der Heyden (Sep 14, 2016)

gallen said:


> I don't make a living in anyway from VBA/Excel (I'm a planner for a flooring manufacturers) *so how do you guys that do make a living from it, feel about this?
> *


Do you mean you are wondering if you can make a living from it?  If so, I don't want to turn you off, but do want you to know the reality.

1) There is less VBA work available today than there was say 5 years ago (personal experience / observation).  I think possibly due to tools such as Power BI, but also possibly because smaller pieces of work go to upwork / fivrr and such, and then to the lowest bidder (I cannot compete with the e.g. Indian rates)

2) The demand for Excel and VBA specialists usually requires further specialism (e.g. accounting).

3) The requirement is often to work with other systems / technology (e.g. SQL, BI, even other programming e.g. C#.NET).

Good luck.


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## thes4s67 (Sep 16, 2016)

> However, there are a few people in the forums that just give you the situation and expect you to write the fully tested code for them.




I feel the same way. I first started on this forum totally oblivious to VBA but I was able to learn asking questions (sometimes even with no code provided because I haven't got a clue to begin). Now about a year later, I can say my VBA/Excel skills have improved a lot. 

I now post solutions to problems that I know even if the user doesn't provide any code while for some I explicitly ask "What have you tried so far". However it really bugs me when some users: expect you to read their minds on how the outcome should be, do not even bother to format their code to be readable on the forum, or dont even say thank you. Overall, I contribute to learn and because I like to give back to the forum which has helped me a lot.


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## shg (Sep 16, 2016)

A few years ago I got a PM thanking me profusely for help, and offering ... pictures of herself. "Whatever you want."

I followed the party line and suggested she make her offer to Bill.


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## FDibbins (Sep 16, 2016)

lol shg, and you didn't share?

For what it's worth, my view on this type of thing is that probable the vast majority of people who post asking for help, do so from some form of business/work need, a few may need help for charities/sports clubs, while a VERY few actually want help for their own/domestic needs.

With that in mind, I take the approach that my help (and everyone else's) is offered free, and I am free to just walk away if I feel the need to.  Nobody forces anyone to provide answers, and if you get offended/uncomfy/whatever, about a thread/question/comment, walk away and leave it for some1 else.

I enjoy problem solving (pretty much exclusively with formulas), and get a kick out of working out solutions.  Sometimes you get a thanks, and sometimes you don't even get a reply saying it worked.  I don't do this for the thanks, but they are always appreciated, all I would like is some feedback on whether my suggestions helped


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## gallen (Sep 21, 2016)

shg said:


> A few years ago I got a PM thanking me profusely for help, and offering ... pictures of herself. "Whatever you want."
> 
> I followed the party line and suggested she make her offer to Bill.



Superb. Currency comes in many forms!


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## BobbyDrus (Oct 9, 2016)

I came here for help because I had been going to stackoverflow and I did a poorly worded question and was just ripped apart with negative votes that I was restricted to being able to do very little.   I felt I needed to find some place that would not punish me for poorly worded questions.

I am a manager and have a bunch of poorly created excel tools to use that I am constantly refining,  it isn't within my job requirements but I like the challenge.  This form through my questions and the many posts I just lurk through has made me much better in a short time.   There are a few posters I'd love to offer to buy a drink for, but don't make the offer due to form rules.   I just hope one day to be able to give back to the next guy as I've been taking so much help.


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## XL-Dennis (Oct 12, 2016)

Hi there,

Let me give You some input from a wider perspective, i.e based on my vagabond life through many public Q&A forums through the years.

You will always meet two sort of members, those who want to learn and do the work by themselves and those who want You to do the work for them. 

The approach I recommend is simple to evaluate op's first post. If You get suspicious about the post check his profile. It will probably shows that the op recently signed on as a member. Only the required information is supplied. Probably it's the first post the op does. If You feel that the op only wants You to do the job then move on to the next thread. 

When it come to student (on all level) they tend also to want You do the work for them. However, usually they are aware of it but want to try a short cut to the solution as they usually a) have little time and b) lack basic knowledge. In this case I suggest that You post a message stating "We don't do others home work. Show us what You have done Yourself and we may consider to help You.".

The worse subgroup is the ones that make cross-post. Today I have no details about it but it existed in the old days. They should be ignored and in the end be black listed by the moderators.

Keep up the good work and good luck,
Dennis


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## AliGW (Oct 12, 2016)

I enjoy trying to find solutions to help people. One can't expect people, especially novices, to be able to state all of their requirements precisely in an opening post all of the time, but the ones that I find the most galling are those where the requirements change completely over the course of the thread, with each message from the OP being along the lines of, "Almost there - now just need to add this facility", or those where you eventually establish that the real dataset bears no resemblance whatsoever to the sample data provided. Nonetheless, when one finally manages to provide a solution, it's very rewarding.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Oct 13, 2016)

It wonderful to see you here again xl-Dennis!  I hope you are well!



XL-Dennis said:


> The worse subgroup is the ones that make cross-post. Today I have no details about it but it existed in the old days. They should be ignored and in the end be black listed by the moderators.



Cross-posting is definitely still quite a regular occurrence, unfortunately.  We (i.e. the mods) took a middle-ground position on this.  We don't forbid it, but we do insist that the OP make clear that their question is cross-posted, and that he/she provide hyperlink references to the other posts.  This way members can decide for themselves whether or not they want to address the question.


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## Joe4 (Oct 13, 2016)

> _They should be ignored and in the end be black listed by the moderators._


Yes, we are not quite so heavy-handed.  Many Cross-Posters are noobs to internet help forums who don't fully understand/appreciate forum netiquette.  So we first try to educate them rather than punish them.
Repeat offenders, however, risk banishment from the board.


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