# 1:29 Minute Drill by Favre



## NateO (Sep 28, 2009)

Not looking for a sports argument, per se. But that was pretty incredible. Any football fans see this?

That game should have been over, in a losing effort for the Vikings. Yet somehow I knew to sit tight and watch - and man did I get rewarded. 

Wow. One of the more unbelievable football games I have ever watched.


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## schielrn (Sep 28, 2009)

Well each week with the Cincinnati Bengals is definitely a roller coaster.  We usually get to see many great endings, but typically not in our favor.


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## Oorang (Sep 28, 2009)

I've been a Favre fan since the Green Bay glory days. It makes me happy that he's still out there doing it at his age. 

I've also been an occupant of Ohio for 30 odd years... And have often wished the we had a pro football team At least we have the Buckeyes


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## schielrn (Sep 28, 2009)

Oorang said:


> At least we have the Buckeyes


  I can agree with that.  And how about them Bearcats.  It'd really be nice to have a professional team here period.


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## Tom Urtis (Sep 28, 2009)

NateO said:


> But that was pretty incredible. Any football fans see this?


Yes it was vintage Favre and yes those of us here in San Francisco sure saw it, thanks for the reminder Nate. The 49ers are having a good season so far but these are the kinds of games where they need to shut down the opposition for the full 60 minutes. Kudos to the Vikes, that's why they brought in veterans like Favre and Greg Lewis who caught the pass that a lot of other receivers would not have come down with in bounds.

A few notes about the college game, we're Stanford Cardinal football season ticket holders and of course were at the game Saturday night when we knocked off #24 UW. Harbaugh's building that program into a competitive product, fun to watch.

As for my undergraduate alma mater Michigan State, well, let's just say they're in a rebuilding year and it's not easy being green in 2009. I already have hotel reservations in East Lansing for next September's game vs Notre Dame.


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## NateO (Sep 28, 2009)

Sorry, Tom. Certainly not brought up to trample on 49er fans or anything of the sort - you guys played a great game. Should have won.

It was just an incredible drive and play. I like your Coach and direction - you guys stuffed the best RB in the league, on the road. You'll win football games playing like that.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

I'm used to seeing incredible ending like that, unfortunately they usually come at my team's expense (the Bills).  

The opening week loss to the Patriots was a heartbreaker, a game that they had all but wrapped up.  That is the third consecutive Monday night game they lost in the fantastic fashion in the closing minutes.  They ought to request that the NFL do not put them on Monday nights anymore...


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

I watched that Bills game - couldn't believe they lost that game.

So, does that make you a TO fan? 

Actually, he played it cool in his press conference the other day...

Back to the 49ers for a second. This might sound odd, but I think if I'm a fan of theirs, I would come away from that game not feeling too badly. They played pretty well, but they got Favre'd - and I've been on the opposite end of that stick many a day.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

No, I am not a TO fan, though I don't hate him either.  He's just another Prima Donna athlete who likes to draw attention to himself (there is no shortage of those in sports today).  At least he isn't a criminal!

I actually find myself feeling a little sorry for TO, though.  It is obvious that the media was trying to bait him into saying something stupid after his last game, and he wasn't taking the bait.  

He is really in a no-win situation with the media.  If he takes the bait, then it is all over the news, and they say "its the same old TO".  If he doesn't, then they label him as uncooperative and not being a team leader.

It really irks me when the media tries to "create" the news instead of merely reporting it (aka, their job!).  This extends to politics as well as sports, but we certainly don't want to go there!


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Oh, TO was clearly being baited. I was impressed he decided to not go there, that was sound judgement - something he doesn't always excercise. I do wonder if the Bills' head coach is in trouble, though?

The other way to look at the 49ers performance, is that the Vikings didn't cover the spread - 7 points. That's a very good Vikings team, on both sides of the ball, and they really outplayed the 49ers in the first half (score didn't indicate this).

When you look at the final score, it was a 3-point difference, that's the spread you get just for being home. So from a Vegas perspective, they played a very good team pretty evenly. And had it not been for a 1st ballot HOF QB, they would have won.


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## Tom Urtis (Sep 29, 2009)

T.O. brought all the attention to himself with the Texas Stadium star spike; the Sharpie; danding with cheerleaders' pom poms, working out on camera during a hold-out...the list goes on and on.   Any team that picks up a player like that is asking for trouble.   So the media will tee off on him more than another player who doesn't seek out the attention.

The Bills won't have to worry about getting taken off Monday nights, any team that loses a lot (the Bills are not in that category yet) don't get scheduled for MNF, just ask the Detroit Lions how they spend their Monday nights in the fall and they will know years in advance that they'll be in their living rooms front of the TV.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

> Oh, TO was clearly being baited. I was impressed he decided to not go there, that was sound judgement - something he doesn't always excercise. I do wonder if the Bills' head coach is in trouble, though?


Most of the Bills fans wanted Jauron canned after last season.  He isn't a bad coach, but he isn't a great coach either.  He is the epitome of mediocrity, as is evidenced by three consecutive 7-9 season.  

In a division that has Belichick and Parcells/Sparano, he has been clearly outcoached in many games.  Coming into this season, the Bills have a 2-21 record against teams that finish with winning records under Jauron.

But hey, the players love playing for him, for whatever that's worth!

On another note, are you a Twins fan too?  They have an important series against the Tigers here, starting with a double-header today.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

I am a Twins fan, and today is huge. They're currently in the 7th inning of game 1 of a double-header, 1-1. They pretty much need to win 3/4 to have a shot at the division - so today will probably decide this.

TO has definitely brought the baiting on himself - because he's generated so many outrageous sound-bites in the past, the media can't help themselves. They're looking for the next TO nugget. So, you just have to recognize it and play it cool, which he did.

I think I agree with you on Jauron, not a bad coach, but he's not Marv Levy. Didn't he also have stints with the Bears and Lions that were pretty not-too-hot, too? Firing the Offensive Coordinator a few weeks before the season is a strange (bad) decision, too. If you're going to do that, it should have happened long before then.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yes, the Bills have been riddled with soem questionable decision making like firing their offensive coordinator and cutting their starting left tackle a week before the season begins.  The have been known for not wanting to pay management (GM, coaches, etc), so the hire guys of questionable or little experience, and pay the price for it (their GM is a young guy who was their PR director!).

Jauron had one great season coaching the Bears where they went 13-3 and he was coach of the year.  That was the only winning season he has ever had.

Good luck to the Twins.  As we get to see a lot of future Twins roll through Rochester, I like to root for them.  I really like the way they run things.  They're a small market team that remains competitive by having a great scouting department and farm system.  

It'll be a shame if they lost Mauer and Morneau when they become free agents.  Mauer is something special, and looks like a Hall of Famer if he keeps it up.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

The Bills are still owned by Rich? Sounds like he's pinching the wallet a bit? My dad's actually friends with him, they're both in the baking business, or were.

It's hard for me not to root for the Twins, love Gardy, and like you said, they run a nice, lean organization. They'd be crazy to let Mauer go, even if it's going to cost them major dollars. He's one of the best catchers I've ever watched play the game, and he's from St. Paul, MN. 

Mauer's the face of the franchise - Minnesota would riot if he left.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

The Bills were never owned by Bob Rich, Rich just had the naming right to the stadium.  The Bills have always been owned by Ralph Wilson, since their inception in 1960.  A few years back, Rich lost the naming rights to the stadium, and now it is called Ralph Wilson Stadium ("The Ralph").

Ralph Wilson is a very old man, and that has many in Buffalo worried.  There is no succession plan after he dies.  Many people were hoping that he would leave the team to his daughter so they will stay in Buffalo, but he said he is not going to do that.  The inheritance tax would be too high for her too afford.  So the team will go up for sale when he passes on.  

Jim Kelly has been instrumental in trying to organize a group (including himself) to make a bid for team when that happens.  Unfortunately, many doubt that he will be able to round up enough people/money to compete with bids from some billionaires around the country who would love to own an NFL team (and maybe move it).


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Scarier is that there's money in Toronto that's interested in the Bills, too. In fact, I know who could probably take a run at it, in terms of organizing funds - Richard Peddie, another family friend. 

He runs the Maple Leafs and Raptors, the former generates a lot of cash.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah, that's one of the big issues right now.  A lot of people fear that Wilson's agreement with Toronto is a pre-cursor to the team being moved there.  Wilson claims he is just trying to expand the local market to help keep the team in Buffalo.

The Bills made that agreement with Ted Rogers, the owner of the Blue Jays and the Rogers Center.  He has long desired an NFL team.  However, there is talk of him selling the Jays and/or the stadium, which might kill that interest, which may not be a bad idea anyway.  There doesn't seem to be a large interest in Toronto for an NFL team.  They are having a hard time selling the tickets to the Bills games in Toronto (of course, ticket prices start at $100 a pop, which doesn't help sales - especially when you can see them in Buffalo for $50 a pop).

My cousin in Toronto says that Toronto will support a hockey team through thick and thin, but other sports, like NBA, MLB, and NFL, the teams get support when successful, but no so much when they are not.  Look at the Jays now.  Attendence is way down.  Back when they were a playoff team, they were selling out all the time.

He says that many Canadians are also opposed to having an NFL team, preferring their CFL Argos instead.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Ted Rogers, unfortunately, passed away, about a year ago. I'm not quite sure who owns the Blue Jays right now - his family?



Joe4 said:


> He says that many Canadians are also opposed to having an NFL team, preferring their CFL Argos instead.


 
I grew up in Toronto, and I don't agree with that. I very much preferred the NFL over the CFL. I never watched the Argos, oddly enough, I was a Vikings fan.

If there's a group in Toronto that could make a run at the Bills, it would be this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Peddie

Those dudes have some cash, should they want to go all-in, they're worth $1.5 billion.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Joe4 said:


> Look at the Jays now. Attendence is way down. Back when they were a playoff team, they were selling out all the time.


That's a different issue, too. Canadians have fickle sensibilities, and the lock-out season is what killed their attendance. It put everyone off.

It's never been the same, since that.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

> Ted Rogers, unfortunately, passed away, about a year ago. I'm not quite sure who owns the Blue Jays right now - his family?


Ah yes, I forgot about that.  It says they are currently owned by Rogers Communications.  So that is probably why they are looking to sell.



> I grew up in Toronto, and I don't agree with that. I very much preferred the NFL over the CFL. I never watched the Argos, oddly enough, I was a Vikings fan.


I am not saying that there aren't a lot of NFL fans in Toronto -- it just appears that there may not be enough of them to support an NFL team.

According to my cousin (who is also sports nut and lifelong Toronto native), he says there are really two factions -- those who like NFL, and those who prefer the Argos (it seems to be a point of national pride for many).  However, it appears that there doesn't seem to be enough of those rabid NFL fans to justify moving an NFL team there.  It was quite an embarrassment last year when they couldn't sell out the game last year (without a lot of gimmicks, discounts, giveaways, etc).  There still are a ton of unsold tickets for the game this year too.

This "experiment" the Bills have with Toronto has been a real-eye opener and deemed a failure by many.  It appears that they may have over-estimated the amount of interest Toronto has in an NFL team.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Hopefully they stay in Buffalo - I hate seeing teams move. When the Winnepeg Jets went to Phoenix, which is now a disaster, I wasn't too happy. When the Quebec Nordiques went to Colorado, I felt ill. 

Red McCombs was obviously thinking about moving the Vikings to San Antonio, and the pilot of that fell flat on its face. So, I hope they stay - perhaps set up a Green Bay type model?

Toronto's a really big market, one if its suburbs, Mississauga, alone has 1,000,000 people. The entire area has to be well over 5,000,000 people - it makes Minneapolis look small. If they're serious about NFL football, they could probably expand. However, I guess I don't know.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

> Hopefully they stay in Buffalo - I hate seeing teams move. When the Winnepeg Jets went to Phoenix, which is now a disaster, I wasn't too happy. When the Quebec Nordiques went to Colorado, I felt ill.


I was astounded when the Nordiques left Quebec, especially considering how many players come from there!  They obviously love hockey and should have a large fan base there.


> Red McCombs was obviously thinking about moving the Vikings to San Antonio, and the pilot of that fell flat on its face. So, I hope they stay - perhaps set up a Green Bay type model?


That model that Green Bay created was pure genius.  Many in Buffalo were hoping that the Bills would try to adopt that model.  Unfortunately, the NFL changed the rules and that is no longer allowed.  I think the owners put that rule in place after Green Bay did what they did.  The billionaires protect their own!


> Toronto's a really big market, one if its suburbs, Mississauga, alone has 1,000,000 people. The entire area has to be well over 5,000,000 people - it makes Minneapolis look small. If they're serious about NFL football, they could probably expand. However, I guess I don't know.


I think that is what really surprised the Bills, NFL, and Toronto.  They figured with a base that big, they should have no problem finding enough interest to support an NFL team.  Maybe if the Bills were good, it would be a different story.

BTW, I can't believe you have never been to a CFL game, even I have been to one!

I actually took my kids to their first Jays game this year.  They got to run the bases down on the field after the game.  I was amazed at the low attendence, though.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Joe4 said:


> BTW, I can't believe you have never been to a CFL game, even I have been to one!


Actually, I have been to at least two, per my shoddy memory. One was the Grey Cup, the CFL's playoff championship game, at BC Place, in Vancouver. The other was was an Argos game at what was then known as the Skydome, now known as Rogers Centre. I've just always preferred the NFL.

That whole thing with the Quebec Nordiques moving really put me off - there have been so many great players to come out of that region. But, it comes down to cash. When Norm Green (grrr) moved the Minnesota North Stars to Dallas? They were selling out every game in Minnesota. But he got a brand new arena and some serious subsidies to do so, big cash in his pocket.

I didn't realize that Green Bay model had been shut down. Loop-holes, they tend close?

Yeah, the attendance at Jays games leaves something to be desired, it creates vicious cycle, where it's hard to improve the team without the cash. 

I've been to a Jays game, at the Rogers Centre, with none other than MrExcel and Starl, themselves.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

> I've been to a Jays game, at the Rogers Centre, with none other than MrExcel and Starl, themselves.


Yes, I remember that.  I would have liked to have made it up there and joined you then, but my wife was very pregnant at the time.

I saw my CFL game at the old Ex.  I used to go up to Toronto every year for my cousin's birthday and we would go to the CNE and a Jays game.  Those were fun days.  Not that I am some world traveller or anything, but Toronto and Sydney are my favorite "big" cities that I have been to.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

I saw my first MLB game at Exhibition Stadium. Part of the reason I haven't been to a lot of CFL games is that neither one of my parents are big sports fans, or weren't.

When my old man had Grey Cup tickets, he was trying to give them away, until I found he out had them. And my Mom made my Dad take me to my first Leafs game at Maple Leaf Gardens (not a cheap experience). Just wasn't his bag.

I think Toronto's a cool town.

Back to Favre for a minute - Monday night football against the Packers, in Minneapolis this week. This town is going to be crazy.


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## Joe4 (Sep 29, 2009)

> Back to Favre for a minute - Monday night football against the Packers, in Minneapolis this week. This town is going to be crazy.


Sorry, didn't mean to "Truby" your thread!
(I imagine that Greg would take pride in that fact we use his name as a verb on this forum...)

Should be a very interesting game!  I can't wait to see the game in Green Bay later in the season.  Hopefully, Favre will stay healthy until then.  I know he has never missed a game, but at 40, your body can't take the repeated poundings like it used to.


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## NateO (Sep 29, 2009)

Joe4 said:


> I know he has never missed a game, but at 40, your body can't take the repeated poundings like it used to.


 
Does it help when you decide to run upfield and block the nastiest defender on the field, LB - Patrick Willis? Favre decleated Patrick Willis. Wow.


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## Joe4 (Oct 5, 2009)

Nate,

Looks like it should be a very exciting next few days in Minnesota!  
Good week to be a sports fan there!


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## NateO (Oct 5, 2009)

Yeah, there's already people tailgating in Vikings jersey in Minneapolis, on a Monday. 

Then there's tomorrow night's playoff game. I have to pace myself, here - 1 game at a time. Gosh I love beating the Packers, this going to be good.


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## DonkeyOte (Oct 5, 2009)

FWIW even as a Brit I understand the significance of this game - ordinarily this would be a huge game (for Brits think Man U v Liverpool) but with the added spice of Favre it's pretty nuts.  The only problem here with MNF is the time and so it becomes a case of "can I avoid the results until the re-run tomorrow" ?  Reality, no.  The BBC Sport website actually gives decent coverage to NFL these days no doubt in small part to the fact they now have SuperBowl coverage so I will inevitably stumble over the headline at some point in the morning.  

So... although I'm not entirely clueless about the NFL I'm not aware as to which sides are being tipped to go the whole way this year.... and who is expected to this evening ? 
(I'm guessing the Vikings given a) home advantage b) Peterson, right or wrong ?)

I am a Cowboys fan for no reason other than they always seemed kind of cool, that and they had some nice cheerleaders... so for me the loss of TO is an interesting one though the general consensus when I saw NFL Access the other day appeared to be "no great loss - he's 35" etc etc... is that the general feeling ?

Tom there tend to be a lot of 49ers fans in the UK... I would hazard a guess this is largely thanks to the fact they were the most successful franchise as and when free-to-air NFL coverage first came to the UK (I always remember the Patriots SUCKED).


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## Joe4 (Oct 5, 2009)

The Vikings are one of the favored teams to come out of the NFC, along with the New York Giants, and possibly the New Orleans Saints and Philadelphia Eagles.

The AFC seems to be a bit more wide-open, mostly with the usual suspects, New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Baltimore Ravens, Indianapolis Colts, and possibly the San Diego Chargers.

If I were a betting man, I would pick a Giants-Patriots rematch of the Super Bowl two years ago, but I am not a betting man (mostly because I am not very good at it)!

But its still early in the season, and a few key injuries could knock out some of those teams above, or a "sleeper" might arise.


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## NateO (Oct 5, 2009)

This game is HUGE - it's all ESPN is talking about (our 24/7 Sports station).



DonkeyOte said:


> So... although I'm not entirely clueless about the NFL I'm not aware as to which sides are being tipped to go the whole way this year.... and who is expected to this evening ?
> (I'm guessing the Vikings given a) home advantage b) Peterson, right or wrong ?)


 
If you ever want to know who is favoured, you want to look at the Las Vegas point-spreads - for this game, it's 5.5 points, Vikings. That's not as big of a spread as it sounds like, because you almost automatically get 3 points, just for being at home. These are widely available on the Internet.

I never bet on sports in a non-trivial manner, but you don't want to guess too far away from the spread. Vegas doesn't always get it right, but they get right more often than they get it wrong - there's a ton of money on the table.

Anecdotaly, I'd take that spread and then some. There's a few factors why. Adrian Peterson - this guy is a freak and I happen to think Green Bay's LBs are overrated. The Vikings defensive line. The Packers have a key injury at Left Tackle, Clifton. So, they're going to feature a backup against one of the best defensive Right Ends (not exaggerating) in Jared Allen - that's going to be a serious problem. They're going to have to double him, especially if Grant can't run - and I think he's overrated too.

This Vikings team is really complete - they can win in different ways. But for the most part they really excel at smash-mouth football, i.e., we can run, and you can't.


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## NateO (Oct 5, 2009)

I probably should bet more heavily on sports, because I am good at this. But I don't.

The problem with moving away with the spread is that you're giving it away, unless you're right. But even if you are right, you haven't made me wrong, per se - because I can arbitrage that - and have, for very trivial amounts of money.

Still, it's always fun to arbitrage a football game.


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## NateO (Oct 5, 2009)

I should explain what I did, and what I mean by arbitrage, as this is a good story. This was when the Patriots played the Eagles in the Superbowl, and I believe the spread was 7 points in favor of the Patriots. This is what happens when you wander from the spread:

This is actually a good conceptual example of a hedged position, or a financial straddle.

Two things are required to make this work:

1) Pick the actual winner
2) Find insane people who bet with their hearts (versus statistical probability)

#1 is easy, Pats, everyone, including Vegas, was in on this, except people falling into category #2, who got a little carried away. And note, point spreads are actually important!

Position 1:
Okay, Person A, simply likes to argue, if I say Pats, he says Eagles; I get $10 on the Pats, no point spread.

Position 2:
Person B simply likes to take a position similar to Person A's with no real insight as to what she's getting herself into; I take the Pats for $5, no point spread.

Position 3 (The Hedge):
The most interesting position and the real beauty of this operation comes into play right here.

"Naughty" comes running up to me, and declares "I want to bet!" I said "Fine, I'll take the Patriots." He says "No, I want the Patriots." I says "How bad do you want 'em? I'll take the Eagles with a 21 point-spread (which is ridiculous, but the trick is to keep a straight face)." He says "Two touchdowns and I win." I says "Fine I'll take the Eagles, 13.5 point-spread." So, I have $10 on the Eagles, with a 13.5 point-spread

At this point I'm laughing my keister off at the bar, having realized what I have just done. And no one seems to get it, except me, I tried explaining this to Person X and Y, but they weren't computing…

Sounds crazy right, I've bet $15 on the Patriots, $10 on the Eagles? Er, not exactly. There are only three possible outcomes at this point:

1) Pats win by two touchdowns or more, I win $5
2) Pats win by less than two touchdowns, I win $25
3) Eagles win, I lose $5

I've basically purchased insurance, for free. I've placed $25 worth of bets and at this point I have an upside of $25 and a downside of $5, and I get to bet on the team I want to bet on, and it didn't cost me a dime!

Basically, I know the following:

The Patriots should win, and they should win by less than 1 touchdown and two field goals, which is still a winner for me at which point I win all of my positions, which I did.

So, as the game is coming to a close, Friend X clicks in on what I have done (as he watches me cheer for both sides) and asks "Why would you not do that all the time?" My answer? "I would do that all the time."


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## schielrn (Oct 6, 2009)

Well that is one down with one to go for Minnesota sports.


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## Joe4 (Oct 6, 2009)

Favre was great last night, and Jared Allen was a BEAST!

I have to admit, I thought the Vikings were crazy in their pursuit of Brett Favre, the way that he was yanking them around.  But if it wasn't for Brett Favre, I don't think the Vikings would have won their last two games.  Thay's what they got him for, and so far he has lived up to the billing.  Vikes fans just hope that he doesn't get banged up and peter out like he did last year for the Jets.


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## NateO (Oct 6, 2009)

NateO said:


> The Packers have a key injury at Left Tackle, Clifton. So, they're going to feature a backup against one of the best defensive Right Ends (not exaggerating) in Jared Allen - that's going to be a serious problem. They're going to have to double him...


I thought I sensed a serious issue, here. Wow, what a great game this guy had. I was pretty stoked when we picked up Allen, kind of felt for KC fans, this guy is relentless.

Favre looked great. There were a lot of mixed emotions in the Vikings fanbase about our pursuit of Favre - one of my best buddies thought we were crazy. Crazy like foxes. Adding him to the equation is the working definition of picking your poison. Any Vikings fan who thinks that was a bad call at this point, hasn't been watching.

Next up, the Twins!


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## schielrn (Oct 7, 2009)

Well Congrats Nate.  It looks like Minnesota got their wish.  That was one heck of a game and either side deserved to win.  There were too many amazing offensive and defensive plays to even count.  I love the excitement going into the post season, but unfortunately I think that game hurt them badly for a deep run in the playoffs.


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## NateO (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks! Crazy couple of days in MN sports. 

That was a pretty crazy game, 5+ hours? We definitely burned up just about everything we have for a bullpen, including 2 (pretty much) innings from Nathan.

We'll see, I've been discounting this Twins team all season, and this division-winning comeback, which is unprecedented, makes me think I need to get on board. 

Plus I can't stand the Yankees - Go the Twins!


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## Joe4 (Oct 7, 2009)

As you alluded to, I fear the Twins will be at a major disadvantage having burned through their bullpen yesterday.  Its too bad Morneau won't be playing.  The could really use his bat against the Yanks.  The Yankees were smart to start the Series today.

It would a major upset if the Twins were able to pull it off, but I'll be rooting for them (I can't stand the Yankees either!).


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## NateO (Oct 7, 2009)

If Morneau was good to go, agreed. But apparently his back is really messed up - I heard a stat last night that he's batting .201 since the All Star break, which is not normal for him.

What the Twins need, is more Kubel!


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