# Career Advice - Am I being exploited ?



## Nyanko (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi 
I could do with a bit of advice from others as to whether I'm being overly sensitive or have a justified reason for being upset.

I work in a HR office as a data analyst responsible for running reports and maintaining databases, admin etc. Since working in this department I have taught myself VBA whilst working on various historical spreadsheets (some very complex) and have become suprisingly good !! 

Problem is that now I'm being used as a "magic wand" within the department to build excel spreadsheets capable of lots of intuative work thanks to the VBA I can program in. There's the expectation that I can solve complex issues at the drop of a hat with no acknowledgement of the skill needed to do it. People here are impressed that you can change the colour of cells !!

My main issue is that for bonus and paygrade purposes I am "just an admin" and am not eligible. So when my managers are using my work to fulfil their objectives, they get a big bonus, I barely get a pat on the head. 

Things have come to a head now because I created a Recruitment Dashboard that records all the applicants we have and shows real time stats on diversity and agencies/costs used etc. It has been so successful that my manager has taken it to europe and now various european branches want to use it. 

So now I've been asked to be on a project group to roll out my own work, but with others jumping in to be a go-between (so that the european people don't talk to me directly). So I get the feeling that, again, I'm gonna do all the work and others are gonna take all the credit. When the whole design, coding and impliemntation was 100% mine. 

Am I being too precious about this ?

Should I put my foot down until they acknowledge my brilliance 
or should I just do the work and be grateful for a job ?

I'm interested to hear opinions, good or bad, as well as suggestion's on what I should do ?


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

I think it's a phase that many of us go through.  It's typical to be exploited in this way; I endured exactly the same.  Is it fair that you develop a fantastic solution for little more tan a pat on the back?  No, of course not!  But I think you need to look at this from another angle:

Firstly you have been allowed to use your own initiative and given the time to develop this solution.  Yes, the company benefits but some companies (managers) keep 'admin' staff on a tight leash.

Secondly you have been able to put those skills to use and in the process refine and further those skills.

Thirdly, hopefully there are a number of colleagues that are aware of your 'brilliance' (your word, not mine ).

I'd say you're setting yourself up nicely.  Perhaps these skills that you are developing will earn you a bigger pay check in your next position?  Perhaps you are ready for that step already; why not start looking and see if you can get a new job?  And if you continue the way you are perhaps you will develop these skills to such an extent that you can offer yourself to the market as a consultant?  And, perhaps, the colleagues I referred to in the 3rd point will pass work your way?

I say be grateful that you have had the opportunity to put your skills to use, and that you have had the opportunity to improve.  I say a budding developer should favour experience and opportunity over salary / bonus.  The money will come.


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## RoryA (Mar 31, 2011)

I agree with Jon and would just add that "putting your foot down" would, I suspect, be a really bad idea.


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## AMAS (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi,

My career path is a little different than yours, but I have had to struggle with similar inequalities over the years. There are two questions you need to ask yourself...

1) Am I happy (accepting at the minimal) that others are taking credit for my work, or at least can I live with it without being felt cheated.

2) If the answer to Q1 is NO, then can I afford to make the move to another company at this time.

I quit my long-standing, secure job many years ago because I came to the point that I was not only being promoted, but they began demoting me. I think they thought that this would be a way to keep me in check. I don't know. In any case, it was one of the toughest decisions I ever had to make because I have a family to support. I took me some time to get back on my feet, but the only thing I regret now is that I didn't quit sooner. 

After leaving the company, I was free to work free-lancing jobs (or more realistically, I had to find a way to pay the bills). This opened up avenues I didn't know even existed and offered me the opportunity to further my formal education and experience.

Today, my old bosses come to me for professional collaboration instead of for coffee or other mediocre tasks. But again the situation is different for each person. The one thing you have to decide is that delicate balance between the known constants and unknown variable and take it from there.

One other last piece of advice... play dumb. If your job description is not a vba programmer then don't do it for free at work, unless of course its for your own personal projects. There is no reason for you to have to go above and beyond the call of duty everyday to resolve everyone else's problems. I personally have learned to do the opposite of what we tell our kids to do... I stopped sharing my toys.

My 5 cents...

Good luck.

AMAS


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## AMAS (Mar 31, 2011)

Further, I think Jon roya provide good insight and advice. Experience can not be bought, it can only be earned....

AMAS


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## Nyanko (Mar 31, 2011)

Thank you for your honest feedback. I was worried that Id do something I regret, it's so tough to see 90% of my direct colleagues on the bonus scheme and some of them getting great scores using my work while I end up with nowt !

But I agree that the experience has been invaluable, just wish that it was taken into account in my job role and at review time. 

Because I have no formal computing qualification, no degree, and am part time I think the chances of me finding "the next step" in my career are slim. And in my (HR!) department and in this company promotion/development unless you are sales is borderline impossible. 

I appreciate the feedback and guess I'm back to head-desking !!!


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## RoryA (Mar 31, 2011)

At the end of the day, anything you create at work is company property so there's not much you can do about that, but you may want to make sure you add your name to every procedure in the workbook and ensure you are noted as the author in the workbook properties.


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## SuperFerret (Mar 31, 2011)

Nyanko, I feel your pain. I'm at this point in my career also, and it is tough to see many people getting all the praise and recognition you feel should be yours.

I'm currently an administrator, and on less pay than 80% of the other people in our office, I'm full time and because I enjoy spreadsheets and VBA I have self funded Excel, Access and SQL courses to improve myself.
People from all over the company and all levels come to my desk if they have any 'projects' they need doing, from conditional formatting to full automation of spreadsheets and I barely get a _cheers_ when it's done.
Now we have a new manager coming in, and we'll be steering towards being more Database Admin, and some people above me are trembling at the thought I may end up above them 

The thing is, people notice... and you'd be surprised how many people will be singing your praises when you aren't there. I know this from personal experience.
Keep a note of all the projects you've done, and how long each project has taken to complete, that way at review time you have evidence of your hard work and the time consuming nature of some VBA 

Keep strong, and keep smiling


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## JamesW (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi there,

Sorry to hear about this.

Companies can be funny like that.  In terms of bonus payments it should all be in your contract. 

Have you spoken to your line manager about the extra work you have been doing?  
Explain to him that you feel like you are being taken for granted and that you have not received the credit you deserve for the dashboard you created (among other things).  Also explain that you are thinking of looking around at other companies due to the above.

If he is a good manager than he will think "crap, he's right.  If I don't do anything about this I'm going to lose this guy and the excel knowledge he has".  Good managers understand how much *value* someone adds to the business, and if they lose that person they lose £XXX worth of value (value is not just your base salary, it can also be how much time you save for others - The more time a £100,000 a year manager spends on a problem that can easily be solved by you, the more money the business is wasting).

If he is a bad manager then, well, who wants to work for a bad manager?



> If your job description is not a vba programmer then don't do it for  free at work, unless of course its for your own personal projects



I wouldn't stop helping people.  The more you go out of your way to help people the more they will respect you and think highly of you.  These people then know how much extra value you can add to the business and this *will* help you in later life.

Think of it this way:

A recruiting manager has 2 applicants: Applicant A does his job and rarely does anything out of the norm, Applicant B adds alot of value to the business by doing XYZ on top of his day to day job.  Who do you think the manager will recruit?

In summary: 

Have a chat to your manager, trust me he problably has no idea how you truly feel.
Never stop doing extra things on top of your job.  You may not realise it at first, but people remember how good you are at things, and this will be remembered in job interviews.

Take care,

James


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

Take a leaf out of Rory's book:

Don't let on what you can do with Excel.  Just automate all of your own tasks, pretend that they took as long as though you were doing the job manually, and then spend most of your time in the nearest pub drinking guinness (yuk!).


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## RoryA (Mar 31, 2011)

Correction: don't drink in the _nearest_ pub; find one that's out of the way.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

Page 2 of Rory's book:

Find out if there is any fellow MrExcel member in your vicinity.  If there is then corrupt him to do the same so that you have a drinking buddy (hmmm Mr Schollar?)!


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## SuperFerret (Mar 31, 2011)

Jon von der Heyden said:


> Find out if there is any fellow MrExcel member in your vicinity


 
I wish I could find one near me to do the same


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

Domski's not too far.


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## Colin Legg (Mar 31, 2011)

Jon von der Heyden said:


> Take a leaf out of Rory's book:
> 
> Don't let on what you can do with Excel.  Just automate all of your own tasks, pretend that they took as long as though you were doing the job manually, and then spend most of your time in the nearest pub drinking guinness (yuk!).



And pray that said employer doesn't read online forum threads.


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## SuperFerret (Mar 31, 2011)

Jon von der Heyden said:


> Domski's not too far.


 
I'm actually even closer when I'm at home... Ah, if I could work from home though I would most likely work from the pub


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## Expiry (Mar 31, 2011)

I think I agree with James. There's no harm whatsoever in having a conversation about a bonus with your line manager. Even if you're not contractually entitled, he may recognise the situation for what it is and authorise a one-off bonus as a thank-you. You don't get if you don't ask, and as long as it's done in a professional manner (ie.not stamping your feet if you don't get it), then there's no reason why this should reflect badly on you. In fact, even just standing up for yourself in this manner shows your line manager you have character.

If your company has an Exec board, pick one that you like - or that likes you - and make sure that whateve he asks for you do. Make sure that no matter who else you refuse to do work for, he always gets what he wants from you. That way, you always have someone of power fighting your corner. I've adopted this tactic a few times and it comes in handy on occasion.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

Colin Legg said:


> And pray that said employer doesn't read online forum threads.



My boss, on the other hand, is so cool!  He pays me a bonus whenever I want one.  He doesn't mind me browsing forums.  I can turn up to work when I like and leave when I like.  I can drink on the job, pass wind in the office and spend half my day talking cr4p to my colleagues.  Oh, and he's incredibly good looking too


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## Nyanko (Mar 31, 2011)

Again, I can't thank you all for your opinions on this (including the pub related ones !) 

The sad fact is that I have spoken to my manager (who is also the HR manager for UK) and she kinda shrugged her shoulders and said there was nothing she could do. I've tried explaining the consultant cost of getting someone in to amend my work should I leave/die/win the lottery and she just stared blankly at me. She agreed that I should back off and push back the extra work and development "magic wands" that I get asked to do - then in the next breath asks me to do something exactly the same.

I have been doing work for others in the company in my own time to build my profile, etc but then when people come to me for help my department turn them down because "I'm too busy" to help. (makes me feel like a tool !) 

At least I'm not alone !

I've never done any networking before so have set up an about.me page and linkedin profile if anyone feels so inclinded to network (see sig, no pressure  )


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## Jon von der Heyden (Mar 31, 2011)

Ok, being serious again.

You're developing your skills, both by doing those assignments but also through participation at this forum.  You are also networking here at this forum.  Keep at it, good times are coming your way.


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## JamesW (Mar 31, 2011)

I assume you are Catherine Parkinson: UK HR Data Analyst?  If not, then someone will be wondering what the hell MrExcel is!

Anyway, left you a message - let me know what you think.


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## SuperFerret (Mar 31, 2011)

Are those about.me things actually any good? 

I have seen them before but I wasn't sure whether to take the step and put myself on there or keep at the relentless trawling on various job sites


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## Richard Schollar (Mar 31, 2011)

I rarely get asked Excel things in my office 

And almost never any VBA stuff.

I agree with Rory and Jon though - keep doing the stuff you are.  Might be frustrating now but more likely it will pay dividends in the future.  And it's more fun that what you would otherwise be doing, right?


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## arkusM (Mar 31, 2011)

Nyanko/Catherine

I sympathize with you, I have often felt the same way, though my circumstances are very different. I would affirm what the others have posted and add at the end of the day you owe it to yourself to do the best job that you can do. Your extra effort in helping others builds not only your skills but your character as well. At some point someone will notice, and you may be "rewarded" for it in a traditional sense or you may be the motivation/inspiration for someone else to do better. You never know when or how your hard work, good attitude and character will have an affect. Keep up the good work.


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## MrKowz (Mar 31, 2011)

As already stated, this is a common problem with people that have a skill that is outside of what most others have.  I am a temporary-assigned pension analyst for an international corporation, and I'm probably the only person in the entire office who knows Excel outside of a VLOOKUP.  When I started here, the way we processed pension plans was utterly horrible: we were printing out forms from Excel, looking up data manually in Excel (with the Find tool), and hand-calculating everything.  I was ready to scream when they told me that this is "how they do it."  So, I developed an entire application in Excel that increased productivity by 500% and reduced possible human error by 95%.  This translated to an estimated (by me) savings to the company of around $500,000 (as well as virtually eliminating miscalculations).  Know what I got?  A "huh, neat".

That was back in August 2010.  Currently, I am still in the position, but my knowledge of Excel is starting to get around the office, and I welcome each time someone asks for help.  I've helped a few managers with some projects, made the lives of financial analysts easier, and helped slow down the hair-loss of the person who pulls and formats reports.  My name has also gotten a bit out of the office, up to some higher-ups, who are at least aware that there is someone (else) who _really_ knows Excel in the company.

What I feel is that while you may not get the cheers and accolades now, it is being noticed.  When it comes time to get promoted or if you apply for a different position within the same company, you'll have direct examples of how *you* have impacted the company.  I know I can, in an interview, explain what I have developed for the company, the impact my developments have had, and the cost-savings of such developments.  Business people like to hear that kind of stuff!

Ultimately, my goal is to open my own consulting business, but that is going to take a lot more savings than what I currently have.  Companies are looking for people who can do increased productivity in the same amount of time.  The job market has taken a vast turn (at least in the US) where not only are people being laid off left and right, but new jobs aren't being opened.  My company just recently took a 150-person department down to 50, because they feel that if they get the right skills in that 50-person group, they don't need any more because they will be able to get all the work done.

Develop your skills in a professional environment while you can.  Relish in those situations where you get the tasks that require you to research a new method, because that will become just one more gun in your arsenal.  Also, be sure that if you leave the company, give the manager(s) a way to contact you so you can do moonlight-consulting.  When they contact you after you leave the company, that could lead to some serious profits on your end.


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## Darren Bartrup (Mar 31, 2011)

I agree with Jon, and have been in the same situation about 10 years ago.

I explained how many millions I was saving the company through the use of my formula, instead of manually with calculators - doesn't matter, that's the average grade for my job position.

I didn't leave (was made redundant) and now have a job as a developer built on the experience I gained from that job 10 years ago.

Seeing as they're cutting you out of all credit though - put headers (comments) in each bit of code with your name on it.  Find the code to update the Excel 'About' window to include your name (sorry, can't remember off-hand where that code is).


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## Domski (Mar 31, 2011)

Jon von der Heyden said:


> Domski's not too far.



Did I hear my name called?


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## Nyanko (Mar 31, 2011)

SuperFerret said:


> Are those about.me things actually any good?
> 
> I have seen them before but I wasn't sure whether to take the step and put myself on there or keep at the relentless trawling on various job sites



I've been using it in my work so that those interested can find me through my work, thinking that if I leave and someone looks me up in 5 years there is a single page I can keep updated with my email address, twitter links, linkin profile etc .... almost like a brief online CV. 

I figure that if I'm going to the trouble of creating this stuff I'm gonna leave my name and contact details all over it :D


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## Nyanko (Mar 31, 2011)

After reading all of your replies and trying to think longer term I agree that I need to think of the bigger picture. However in my current situation I'm gonna try not to be such a walkover and stand up for myself a bit more.

As much as I want to "not share my toys" I don't know whether I can do that and remain sane. You see I'm a bit of a teacher's pet/show off and can't resist adding the little programming tweeks that got me into this problem to start with !!!!

MrKowz, I too have helped my department by reducing input time from, at it's most dramatic, half a day down to 57 seconds !!!! Because I work for a manufactoring company you'd think that creating efficiency would count for something :D

I'm gonna keep doing what I do best and just hope that karma pays me back


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## Expiry (Mar 31, 2011)

Interestingly, I have the almost opposite problem. I want to help people around the office, but my line manager insists it's not my job to do so (which is correct). It pains me, though, when I look over someone's shoulder and i see what they're doing. 

A classic example recently was someone had developed a Gantt style chart, which basically had manually coloured cells depicting the various activities for each week of 2011. He updates the cell colours manually every week from 14 similar charts that 14 other people have updated manually for their tiny bit and sent to him. Incredible.


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## SuperFerret (Mar 31, 2011)

Nyanko said:


> I've been using it in my work so that those interested can find me through my work, thinking that if I leave and someone looks me up in 5 years there is a single page I can keep updated with my email address, twitter links, linkin profile etc .... almost like a brief online CV.


 
Good plan. I may have to sign up myself then, any self promotion has to be good right? 

Keep smiling and Karma will reward you eventually


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## Domski (Mar 31, 2011)

FWIW once I'd started putting together stuff that I thought was worth shouting about as the junior team member I started setting up meetings where I would demo my work and get direct feedback from everyone from lower grade staff to senior(ish) management. I kept plugging away and got promoted a couple of times and I now run the team I started in and whilst I'm not a high flyer by any means I'm left to get on with doing what I'm best at (not just boozing). 

Sometimes it feels like nobody notices and people may do well off the back of your hard work but if you blow your trumpet loud enough someone will take notice eventually.

Dom


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## TinaP (Mar 31, 2011)

I was in this position several years ago. My family wanted to know why I was taking on a major task without extra pay, but I felt I didn't have any choice if I wanted to keep my job. I completed the project and didn't hear anything beyond a "Yeah, OK, it works" from management. Six months later, feeling pretty low, I got called down to the big shot's office where they gave me kudos and a modest bonus. Just being recognized made me feel so much better.  

Now, I'm constantly sought to help with automation. And I hear "I didn't know Excel could do that" often. (Haven't we all?) But co-workers now call me before they even start on their tasks, to see if I have a better/more efficient idea. Knowing that I am valued not only by management but by my co-workers means the world to me. I know that if my situation changes and I have to find other employment, I've built a knowledge base that they never will be able to take away from me. 

I've suggested to management that it's dangerous to have only one person here who understands VBA.  (While it's nice to have them NEED me, it's a double-edged sword when I want time off.)  They don't see a problem, though, and are perfectly content with all the knowledge being stored in my head.  So I'll be their one and only in-house VBA guru, and they'll have to put up with the big head I've developed.


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## Joe4 (Mar 31, 2011)

Here is my advice to you.

Talk to management and tell them that you see the benefit this type of work does for the company and that you are really interested in doing more of this type of work.  Then ask them where they can see this taking you with the company (i.e. other positions within the company), and ask maybe if they can help structure a "plan" for you to get there.

This serves two purposes.  It shows that you are interested in doing what is best for the company, but at the same time you are probably not going to be content staying in the same position you are currently in.  So they probably know if they don't offer you other options, you may shop your services elsewhere.

Very subtle, but could be an effective way of getting your point across without issuing any ultimatums or burning any bridges.


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## RobMatthews (Mar 31, 2011)

rorya said:


> ...make sure you add your name to every procedure in the workbook and ensure you are noted as the author in the workbook properties.


 
THIS! Definitely do this!!


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## Michael M (Mar 31, 2011)

Nyanko
Been there, done that !!
Spent the last 8-10 years, doing the work for no acknowledgement. Started learning VBA (still trying to work it out...LOL ! ).
I have created a number of workbooks that have saved the org many thousands of dollars. In the last couple of years I have done what rorya said AND have also got a small popup whenever a workbook of my design, is opened, that simply states that this workbook is the property of my org, and then in smaller font at the bottom........created and maintained by.......
Last week I was given a 2 scale upgrade, which is about 25k.
I might add, mainly thanks to all the posters here that dragged my sorry butt out of Excel Kindergarten.

Be patient, it's a frustrating as hell, but there will be Karma.


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## Big Bruiser (Apr 4, 2011)

Enjoy the free VBA education your job has allowed you to have and utilize in your next job.  Build the resume and make more in the future.  Quit whining - this will payoff for you in the end.


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## MrKowz (Apr 4, 2011)

With all due respect, Big Bruiser, I do not see any "whining" going on.  A concerned individual asked a legitimate question, and good discussion has arisen from that question which could not only prove to be beneficial to the OP, but also beneficial to those who might view this thread in the future.  Many of us (most of which are professionals in our field) posted our situations, because it gives an idea on what scenarios one might encounter, and what can be done to help ensure progression in the future.


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## AMAS (Apr 4, 2011)

I think there has been a lot of good open sharing related to this topic. At the end of the day I think the OP (and everyone else who is in a similar scenario) has to ask themselves whether its worth it or not. Nothing is life is one-sided. There are always many shades of grey. It all depends on how you view the glass (1/2 full or 0.5 empty). For a long time I stayed in my job because I felt is was till (the glass) half full. When the situation changed, so did my view on the reality. We can argue back and forth on this, but at the end of the day its all about the person is in the situation. Quality of life is important and if you feel like you are being robbed by bosses (?? Big Bruiser) then maybe its time for a new job search.

AMAS


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## diddi (Apr 4, 2011)

i had an interesting experience a number of years ago in which i developed a significant collection of softwares which attracted considerable attention from many other institutions in my field of employ. i provided my employer gratuatous use of the software, all of which was developed in my own time on my own pc.

my employer would not pay for or share the cost of the development language i used which was expensive (Mac) so i had to buy it myself. they then attempted to *sell* _my_ software to other institutions.

sadly i had to seek the advice of intellectual property lawers to stop them, and some time later i copped a rather nasty shafting...

live and learn


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## sous2817 (Apr 5, 2011)

Joe4 said:


> Here is my advice to you.
> 
> Talk to management and tell them that you see the benefit this type of work does for the company and that you are really interested in doing more of this type of work.  Then ask them where they can see this taking you with the company (i.e. other positions within the company), and ask maybe if they can help structure a "plan" for you to get there.
> 
> ...



I second this approach.  When I started in my current role, I was doing something non-Excel related, but tinkered with it quite a bit.  After about 6 months I was the local "Excel expert".  During my evaluation my manager asked me the "where do you see yourself in 3 years" and I told her that I wanted to created Excel-based solutions for our common office problems.  She laughed and said "the company would never hire someone like that!".  I fished around a little within the company and about 4 months later, I was pulled from being a billable staff to a non-billable position doing just what I wanted.  Here it is two years and two promotions later and I couldn't be happier.  

So the long and short of it is, in addition to doing all of these side projects, make it known that you could see yourself in that kind of position and work towards making it happen.  Not sure how large your company is, but see if there's a similar role in IT or maybe as a business analyst position.  

Good luck!


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## Taul (Apr 5, 2011)

I am in a similar position, I generally get the "projects" to play with outside of my job role. They range from Excel spreadsheets, automating AutoCAD and generating web pages, none of which could be done by anyone else in the company (as far as I know). I do it for fun and to improve my own knowledge. It's something to do at home while my wife watches a rom-com on the telly.

At my age I'm not interested in career development (although continued employment would be good) so I generally remove my name and contact details from any document I produce, don't want the numpties asking for more!

If you are young-ish, adding your name is a good idea though, you may find your documents end up in other companies. Ex-employees spread them around like seeds in the wind.


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## AMAS (Apr 5, 2011)

Paul-H I like your attitude . Keep up the good work. It is fun to learn new techniques (I guess that what Clark Kent felt when he learned he could fly) and use them to make your life (and others) more efficient. I guess that's what these forums are really all about. A bunch people helping each other out. It does feel good when you feel your talents are not wasted on mediocre tasks like getting a new high score on World of Warcraft (not that I ever did, but it was fun trying). Anyways, thanks everyone for sharing.

Good luck with all your day to day activities and remember the old motto:

"Work smarter, not harder" and my own personal one "its better to automate than to delegate" 

AMAS


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## Rasm (Apr 5, 2011)

wow - I get thirsty from just reading - what Pub we goin 2


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## ClimoC (Apr 6, 2011)

I had a similar overall experience and 'career progression' to the OP - I started off simply doing some whizzy little sheet functions (Nesting 4+ layers, Index/Matchs that people had no clue about, conditional formatting etc).

By the Time I got 'handy' enough with VBA, my first job in London, I ended up writing Applications for scheduling and Lifecycle tracking.

When I was still being paid and only recognised as 'Data Entry' despite several requests for my renewing contracts to be changed, I put out my CV with VBA, VB, .NET etc on there, and within 2 months got a job in Soho as a VBA Developer (40k!).

Now I'm back at my old company, on a much more suitable salary, and am "The go-to guy" and people are far more aware of the power of what I can do.

So hang in there, and remember it doesn't hurt to float your CV out there.

Remember, especially in the Cities, If you can upskill or learn derivatives or have some Market/Finance experience (no, not Camden Market experience!) and get good with the Mathematical side of things as well as general object and sheet stuff, a financial institution pay circa £80k for a good Developer.

So much for VB being a 'dead' language... I was laughed at by the Pascal/PERL developers at my last job - but Managers were far more impressed by my ability to turn data into information than they were with guys who could pull _x_ no. of records from a database...


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## ClimoC (Apr 6, 2011)

Joe4 said:


> Here is my advice to you.
> 
> Talk to management and tell them that you see the benefit this type of work does for the company and that you are really interested in doing more of this type of work.  Then ask them where they can see this taking you with the company (i.e. other positions within the company), and ask maybe if they can help structure a "plan" for you to get there.
> 
> ...




Agreed. My work were far more interested in what I could do when just using some 'common sense' as someone who wasn't a 'Legacy' staff member, I turned 60 manhours of manual data entry into 3 seconds VBA runtime.

If you can show a business case for your abilities, and show the managers bottom-dollar type stuff, they're always far more interested.


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