# Is there a name for those people....



## xlHammer (Aug 10, 2008)

...who are completely Excel illiterate? You know, the ones who have been using Excel for 12 years and never once wondered what the 'AutoSum' button did. Or who look on you in amazement when you explain to them that vlookup can save them from printing off one spreadsheet and spending 3 hours keying all the data into another. I'm not talking about the ones that are keen to learn and experiment, just the ones that seem to have no curiosity at all about this thing they spend much of their working day using.

Is there a special name for them? I think there should be. Can someone come up with one?


Rob


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## sweater_vests_rock (Aug 10, 2008)

xlHammer said:


> ...who are completely Excel illiterate? You know, the ones who have been using Excel for 12 years and never once wondered what the 'AutoSum' button did. Or who look on you in amazement when you explain to them that vlookup can save them from printing off one spreadsheet and spending 3 hours keying all the data into another. I'm not talking about the ones that are keen to learn and experiment, just the ones that seem to have no curiosity at all about this thing they spend much of their working day using.
> 
> Is there a special name for them? I think there should be. Can someone come up with one?
> 
> ...



i tend to know about what i use in excel...so i have to say i'm not great with autosum myself.  unless you have a good training course, or have a low threshold for pain, it probably makes sense that this happens.  i mean, who but a lazy person when tasked with matching 5000 rows of data across worksheets would say "oh man, i gotta find a way to not do this."

ben.


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## erik.van.geit (Aug 10, 2008)

> Is there a special name for them? I think there should be. Can someone come up with one?


what about an *ExsHole*
(pronounce the E a little longer)
(for me it sounds funny, but English is not my native language)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 10, 2008)

I think they're called architects. One old boss used to do fee quotes in Excel, doing all the actual calculations with a calculator...


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## Domski (Aug 10, 2008)

At work I call them Can'ts "Colleague(s) Against New Thoughts" and I have a whole section of them about twenty metres away from me.

I was asked to spend a week with them explaining how they could do things a lot more efficently using a couple of extra fairly basic functions in Excel and designing their spreadsheets a little better.

One lass who administers car loans to employees was filling in six different spreadsheets manually so that she could present the infomation in different ways and spent a fair proportion of her working day doing it. I helped her design a new sheet that held all the data and used pivot tabled to summarise the info but as soon as I left them alone she, and all her other colleagues, went right back to the way they did things before.

I was later told this was mainly because they were concerned that one of them might lose their job if it was found that had spare capacity.


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## Cindy Ellis (Aug 10, 2008)

Hmm...I like Domski's acronym approach...it says so much with so little.  
Until I read his reply I was thinking that the term could be "unemployed"...as in the applicant for a temporary position who classified herself as having intermediate to advanced Excel skills, whose most recent accomplishment in Excel was discovering that you could use Excel to add and subtract numbers!  
On the other hand, if it weren't for some of them, I'd have a more difficult time passing myself off as guru at work 

The group that's most frustrating to me are the ones who know a task could be simplified in Excel, but choose not to because they'd have to validate their worksheet or macro (I'm in a regulated industry that requires validation of software that automates "regulated activities").  Instead of taking a couple of hours to show that a worksheet or macro is built and protected correctly (and documenting their testing), they'll spend many hours (or days or weeks) repeating the same steps manually, with no verification at all that their manual steps have been done consistently or correctly. 
Cindy


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## Joe4 (Aug 10, 2008)

Around here, we call them "Boss"!


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## sweater_vests_rock (Aug 10, 2008)

Joe4 said:


> Around here, we call them "Boss"!



haha


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## mikerickson (Aug 11, 2008)

My father is the kind of man that used Excel years ago. He knows how to make it do what he wants it to (once he has found where #$%$@ Microsoft moved/hid the control) and has no interest in learning what "MicroSoft thinks is an easier way".


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## Fazza (Aug 11, 2008)

Not a general term, but sometimes we have "secretaries" who fit that description. Some have been truly surprised to learn that a formula can be put in to add a column of numbers - means they no longer need to add up the numbers on a calculator and type the result into the cute little rectangle.

Other secretaries though have been highly competent with Excel & Word & Power Point & Access & Visio, etc, etc.


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## Stormseed (Aug 11, 2008)

We refer to these persons as *WANNABE s*


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## xlHammer (Aug 11, 2008)

I'm torn between Erik's and Dom's suggestions, both v. good. Clearly this phenomenom is not limited to the offices I've worked in.

What about a name for those who think they know what they're doing but who end up doing more damage than good? ....Bullsheeters?

Rob


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## Patience (Aug 11, 2008)

I would have thought Dontwannabes or Cantbebotheredabes!

I have been having serious problems lately with this group of people. I have had my eyes opened by the new and innovative ways that people can screw up filling out templates. It has made me realise that some people simply have no interest or no knowledge. And this isn't me bad-mouthing them just a little epiphany I had. 

The single thing that really did it for me was seeing people write over formulas. Surely if there is something already in a box in a template it is there for a reason? Taught me to reguarly lock cells PDQ!


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 11, 2008)

Bryony - does your head in, doesn't it? I used to have to get the same group of people to fill out a revenue template month after month. They had to put the total revenue for each job, and then phase it over the months they'd be doing the work. It had a check column to make sure the phasing equalled the total - and they would regularly delete the formula in it because they didn't like it when it wasn't zero!


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## RoryA (Aug 11, 2008)

I know of a few:
Ignoscenti - those who believe they know what they are doing and therefore refuse to listen to anyone else?
Ignoranus - one who does not know his a#se from his elbow.
Technoramus - speaks for itself.


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## RoryA (Aug 11, 2008)

There's also "William" but that's a bit specific to me, I suspect...


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## Domski (Aug 11, 2008)

rorya said:


> There's also "William" but that's a bit specific to me, I suspect...


 
Mine's a "Steve"


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## Lewiy (Aug 11, 2008)

Actually, I’m gonna stick up here for a certain group.  That would be the group that simply don’t realise that things can be made easier.  It’s not until someone comes along that knows what they’re doing that suddenly this group realises that they don’t have to do things manually anymore.  There’s not really any excuse for people that add up rows of data with a calculator, but when it’s something (even as simple as VLOOKUP) that they just don’t know exists, it’s not really their fault….and normally their time is taken up by doing actual work rather than problem solving.  These are the people that I feel for the most as I used to belong to this group many moons ago.  But the key is that when you finally unlock the secrets of Excel, you need to keep learning rather then just asking one person to keep doing things for you.


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 11, 2008)

Lewiy - I love that group. People who start learning things, and then share stuff back with you - fab! I even quite like the ones who don't want to learn, but who appreciate the neat tricks, and will ask you to do something for them as a one-off when they're stuck. Makes my day more interesting, and I quite like being able to show off


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## Lewiy (Aug 11, 2008)

cornflakegirl said:


> Lewiy - I love that group. People who start learning things, and then share stuff back with you - fab! I even quite like the ones who don't want to learn, but who appreciate the neat tricks, and will ask you to do something for them as a one-off when they're stuck. Makes my day more interesting, and I quite like being able to show off


 
I couldn't agree more with you there.  In fact, they are actually the same group that keep me employed at the moment!  In some ways I feel a little guilty about not teaching them anything..........


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## Jonmo1 (Aug 11, 2008)

> That would be the group that simply don’t realise that things can be made easier.




I agree, Ignorance <> Stupidity, it simply means you didn't know. It's the ones that refuse to use/learn the functionality once they know it exists that bug me.



> In some ways I feel a little guilty about not teaching them anything..........


 
I call that job security...


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## Lewiy (Aug 11, 2008)

jonmo1 said:


> I call that job security...


 
You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head there!! Sometimes you just have to keep things to yourself….which is a shame though, because there are a select few with whom I would very much enjoy sharing some knowledge.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
*has just had an epiphany regarding the amount of time spent on MrExcel*<o></o>


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## Domski (Aug 11, 2008)

> I call that job security...


 
It's a fine line between demonstrating enough that it makes them think you're indispensable and showing people enough to make them think your helpful whilst still saving something special up for the wow factor when you really need it


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## Fazza (Aug 11, 2008)

Please don't have the 'scarcity mentality' - change to the 'abundance mentality'. Teach everyone who is interested.

That is what is happening by those sharing information on the forum. Everyone is richer for the sharing - those teaching and those learning. As an individual and as a group we are all poorer with the scarcity mentality: not sharing information.

You will become a more valuable/better person for sharing.

Please teach everyone who is interested.


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## RichardS (Aug 11, 2008)

I'm with you, Fazza. I often get asked to undertake specific projects because people know I can do it in Excel. If it's not too complex, and people are willing to listen,and I can make the time, I will happily sit down with them and show them the steps I took to get to the end product. Next time, they can make a start themselves, and I can just be availabel as a resource. Not doing myself out of a job, because the more often you do this, the more often people will aks for your help. And the more often that happens, the more challenged you are yourself to learn something new.


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## Joe4 (Aug 11, 2008)

> Please don't have the 'scarcity mentality' - change to the 'abundance mentality'. Teach everyone who is interested.
> 
> That is what is happening by those sharing information on the forum. Everyone is richer for the sharing - those teaching and those learning. As an individual and as a group we are all poorer with the scarcity mentality: not sharing information.
> 
> ...


Very well said, Fazza!  I couldn't agree more!  That is why many of us are here!


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## Fazza (Aug 11, 2008)

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_mentality

Likely you will find, like me, that if you 'show others the path' where they can learn lots about Excel (or about healthy diets or lifestyles, or being better people / personalities / partners, or having wealth, or just about anything else) less than 5% of people will follow that path.

There are many, many opportunities for using Excel and even if there were 10 times as many people with skill levels 10 times what they have now there would be plenty of opportunities still.

So, don't be secretive with your knowledge, please. You will grow and be more appreciated and better by sharing the knowledge with as many people as you can. Look at this forum as an Excel-ample. Bill Jelen and hundreds of thousands of people are improved by this forum! Wow, eh!

And the same with all the other great Excel web sites that are often linked to from threads - Debra Dagliesh, Chip Pearson, Charles Williams, Jon Peltier, Rob Bovey, XL Dennis, etc, etc, etc.


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## Stormseed (Aug 14, 2008)

*T*eaching sure does makes a man / woman perfect. If you are able to teach well then prolly you would be an expert in whatever you preach. Nevertheless, the people who are learning - they seem to be like this...?

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335908

*T*his one is so inquisitive about creating a macro - whether or not - it is required for his problem - on the top of it - ENGLISH vocabs seem to be out of the blues


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## arkusM (Aug 14, 2008)

What to call these people. I like to call them *hard workers*. Myself, I am *way* too lazy to do data entry or things the long way. My work can be tedious and I find interest in finding solutions that make the tedium less onerous. I guess I also have the luxury of being able to pursue the more efficient* solutions. *I must qualify that, to be more efficient for the process, I do necessarily have the excel proficiency to make it a efficient as possible, but I am working on that thanks to those who teach on this forum. My skills have increased ten-fold thanks to all the selfless teachers.


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

My old boss had a great story of once hiring a bloke who described himself as very lazy. For the first three months of the job, he worked all hours, making all the systems and processes as efficient as possible. After that, he went home every day at 5.

Not sure I'm dedicated enough for the first bit. Or that I'd want to stay in a job where there was nothing left to improve! But I like the story 

Oh, and data entry is very wrong. Nearly as wrong as merged cells


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## Patience (Aug 14, 2008)

So, because he went home at 5, he was lazy? With a few exceptions, (like today) I consider myself a hard worker, and I very seldom work past five. I manage my time well.

That isn't a snipe, I'll have you know - just an observation. (Made by a slightly grumpy person!)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

Mind you - while I completely agree with making the tedium less onerous, I'm not sure that always ties up with making the solution more efficient... I spent a good part of last week (and of Rory's and a couple of other people's last week) automating the reformatting of a report that we get sent. Doing the process manually would take 30 mins absolute tops. Let's say I spent a day on the macro (probably an underestimate). The report is sent monthly. That means we have to use it for at least the next 2.5 years for it to have been a worthwhile use of time. Can't see it myself. But it was much more interesting to write the macro, and learn all sorts of new stuff, that to do the reformatting manually 

(Would just like to say that some of my macros do actually make things more efficient!)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

Bryony - the man described himself as lazy - in the same way that arkusM did. As a synonym for efficient 

Do you do month-end reporting? If so, I want your job! I've never worked in a reporting role where stuff didn't frequently go ****-up at month end...


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## Patience (Aug 14, 2008)

Yeah - I have had to stop and think about things like that in the past. But I figure if you are learning while spending ages writing the code you will _probably_ save time elsewhere.


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

Yeah, that's my justification too! :self-deluded:


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## Jonmo1 (Aug 14, 2008)

> Doing the process manually would take 30 mins absolute tops. Let's say I spent a day on the macro (probably an underestimate). The report is sent monthly. That means we have to use it for at least the next 2.5 years for it to have been a worthwhile use of time. Can't see it myself.


 
Are you taking into account the increased productivity of OTHERS? It's not just your own productivity that is effected by the speed and accuracy of your report process. If the productivity of 10 OTHER people is improved because they get the report sooner, then that multiplies the overall productivity by 10...or something like that...Definately making the day's work on the macro more worthwhile...


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## Patience (Aug 14, 2008)

cornflakegirl said:


> Bryony - the man described himself as lazy



Hmm, but I feel indirectly he is implying that I am too. But I had barely any sleep and have ridiculous period cramps, so I'll assume all the worst things today!



cornflakegirl said:


> Do you do month-end reporting? If so, I want your job! I've never worked in a reporting role where stuff didn't frequently go ****-up at month end...



Kind of - I do reports for our funders, but that is quarterly/biannually (depending on who it is), really rather than monthly. A lot of my time is taken up with improving the systems of our company. No small task, but thankfully a steady one. I'll never be short of work, though! The rest of the time I get given invoices that I pretty much hand to the next person. I love that part of my job!


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## arkusM (Aug 14, 2008)

For me it is a Symantec issue. I use "hard worker" in a slightly different meaning in this case. By “hard worker” I mean someone who does something the "hard" way; manual data entry etc. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Bryony, by your own post you do not fit my "hard worker" definition, 





> I manage my time well.


 those are the words of a smart, _diligent _worker. (English is such a messy language). My boss says he knows that I am working, even when my body does not show evidence of work!! Some work can only be started in thought. (then exectuted in a crazy formula or macro!! lol)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

Bryony - now I definitely want your job! Not your cramps though - you can give them to someone else. (Hope you feel better soon!)

Jonmo - I fear in this case that the report was one of those where, if it appears to contradict the assumptions we made in the business case, we'll just wait for the next one, and the next, to see if a different trend develops over time. And that if the effect of my macro was to delete the report off the server, rather than reformat it, there would be no noticeable effect on our decision-making. But I am feeling cynical today. So please feel free to make more excellent arguments!


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## RoryA (Aug 14, 2008)

In the interests of efficiency, at my last job I used to simply ignore the first two requests for anything, unless it was absolutely essential that the work was done there and then (such as one of the servers not working). It's amazing how much stuff people ask you for that they're not really interested in. Of course, most of them figure out the pattern eventually...


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

I tend to do that with non-urgent stuff that I'm not sure how to tackle. I put it on my to do list, and if they haven't asked me about it a couple of months later, I take it off again. If I like the person, I ask them if it's still relevant before deleting it. I'd never thought of writing it up as a positive character attribute before, though!


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## RoryA (Aug 14, 2008)

Ah well, I don't have character 'flaws', just 'features'. 
It was a small-ish startup company so I was doing 3 jobs including being the entire IT department; in the interests of my sanity and everyone else's safety, I was allowed to work however I liked as long as what needed to be done got done. (we occasionally had different ideas as to what really *needed* doing, but mostly it worked fine.)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

rorya said:


> I was doing 3 jobs including being the entire IT department



Are you trying to make me feel pitifully inadequate?!


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## arkusM (Aug 14, 2008)

Oh yeah gotta love the "I need this right away" request that then sits on their desk for two weeks+. 
Rory that happened to me too many times...


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## RoryA (Aug 14, 2008)

cornflakegirl said:


> Are you trying to make me feel pitifully inadequate?!


No - just owning up to my own stupidity for being in that position!

Now I just get people forwarding me *urgent* emails to deal with that they received several weeks earlier...
(edit: apart from one of my colleagues, who is currently snoring at his desk!)


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 14, 2008)

arkusM - you're very articulate for one so young... (cute piccie  )


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## arkusM (Aug 14, 2008)

cornflakegirl said:


> arkusM - you're very articulate for one so young... (cute piccie  )


 
That is a reasonable facsimile of me!! It is my two and half month old son. (he is a big boy, 17 lbs!! )<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>


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## DonkeyOte (Aug 14, 2008)

Hee hee... all you poor folk out there worrying about how to make your jobs more interesting...  

I must confess that like the guy in your earlier post Emma I always aimed to put the stupid hours in with the aim of getting out on time thereafter. The reality however is that there is never a shortage of people willing to take up any of the spare time/capacity you have created for yourself with their latest and greatest ideas which they themselves have no idea how to approach... go figure... blind leading the blind etc...
(for great ideas read: CFO thought of whilst sitting on the cr*pper) 

I'm a big believer in realising the potential of taking a day out early on in the process to save 10 days in the long run... too often people fail to think along those lines either for themselves or for their team.  And Emma even if what you did the other day does not save time on that particular task until the London Olympics I have no doubt that what you learnt in implementing it will save you lots of time approaching other similar tasks in the not too distant future.  Learning can never be a waste of time in my book.

I guess that's why we all come here... to learn as much as we can and I'm sure none of us consider this place a waste of our time ?
(Lounge excepted!)

EDIT: P.S.: Rory, the fact you have "colleagues" as opposed to staff is quite scary...  I dread to think where you work.


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## arkusM (Aug 14, 2008)

I learn things in the lounge. Never know where the crazy talk goes!! LOL


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## RoryA (Aug 14, 2008)

If I said "staff", that would imply I have people working _for _me! As always seems to be the way for me, I am a department of one...


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 15, 2008)

arkusM - he's gorgeous! His mother clearly did a fantastic job - congratulations on choosing her


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## xlHammer (Aug 15, 2008)

This thread seems to have drifted into more philosophical territory than my original intent, which was to find out if there was an excel equivalent of the Harry Potter 'Muggles', those who hadn't peeked around the Wizard of Oz's curtain. All very interesting though.

If you're lucky I might tell you my theory about why MrExcel is like hitch hiking.

Rob


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## cornflakegirl (Aug 15, 2008)

Yeah, that tends to happen in the Lounge. Rory's been taking lessons from Mr Truby...

Tell us your theory!


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## xlHammer (Aug 15, 2008)

Sorry about that, got a bit distracted by some work. Think I might start a new thread for my hitch hiking theory.

Rob


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## Jonmo1 (Aug 21, 2008)

I particularly like the Post Titles like "Excel Spreadsheet Help"

Really?  Help with Excel in an Excel Forum?


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## Lewiy (Aug 21, 2008)

jonmo1 said:


> I particularly like the Post Titles like "Excel Spreadsheet Help"
> 
> Really? Help with Excel in an Excel Forum?


 

Even better are titles like “Help required with Word document”.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o> </o>
I think these should more likely read “Help required finding correct forum”


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