# The 'average' excel user



## boris_excel (Feb 8, 2006)

Hello,

This is my first post on mrexcel.com after lurking for months.  This site has provided great information!

I am a recruiting manager for an electronics company and I am often asked by my managers to hire someone with at least an 'average' knowledge of excel.  I have often debated the definition of 'average' with my managers and I was curious what people on this board think.  Does the average user know pivot tables?  or vlookup? how about recording a macro? 

I know the average changes among job functions.  Finance and accounting tend to have heavier excel users but most people use excel in one way or another.  


thanks,

B


----------



## Cbrine (Feb 8, 2006)

Boris,
  My view on the 'Average User' would most likely be someone who can do a vlookup, at least knows what a pivot table is, but would most likely only be aware of macro's as a recorded key stoke maker, versus actual VBA programming.  Someone with this level of knowledge is going to be middle of the road when it comes to excel.

HTH
Cal

PS- Welcome to the board!!!


----------



## Mark O'Brien (Feb 8, 2006)

In my opinion, the average user can open Excel and type data into a cells.  They may be aware of some functions like SUM and DATE.  That's about it.

My view is based up on the fact that millions of people "use" Excel, but not many people really know how to use it effectively.  

You probably want someone that has above average knowledge of Excel.    (or if they need to know how to use Pivottables or any of that other junk, tell them what you need)


----------



## Andrew Fergus (Feb 8, 2006)

I had an interview with a recruitment manager last week and his definition of a 'power' user was someone who could do a vlookup and a pivot table in Excel.  Now I can do that but I don't consider myself to be a power user of Excel.  In reply to your question I consider those skills to be 'average'.  But I also agree with Mark that the average user might not know how to do those things given we (i.e. the general populace, not the Excel gurus you see on this forum) only use 10% or less of the available functionality within Excel (and 10% our brains, but that's just my opinion!)
Andrew


----------



## RichardS (Feb 8, 2006)

Mark,

Pivottables are junk. That's an interesting observation.

Richard


----------



## Norie (Feb 9, 2006)

In the last job I had working directly with Excel they thought that the person 
who recorded a macro, pasted the generated code to a worksheet,
distributed that worksheet,
 with instructions of how to paste it back into the VBA editor, was an expert.

And no it wasn't me. 

Also in that job I encountered a creature called a 'Business Analyst'.

He liked his coffee that guy, and I found out why.

After he left (or was sacked-never found out), I was handed some of his work to take a look at.

7 A4 pages of code to do what could be accomplished with a few simple COUNTIFs, 
and that code took >3 hours to run, hence the time for coffee.

I imported the data into Access, set up appropriate queries in about 5 minutes and after running the queries had the answers in seconds.

By the way I'm in no way boasting, this guy was getting paid about £500 a day,
I was on £7.50 an hour.


----------



## Richard Schollar (Feb 9, 2006)

In my own experience, I would say that Pivot Tables were pretty much restricted to above average users, but this needs to be tempered by the situation at hand (like you have already mentioned): in my area of finance, pivot tables are common place and virtually everybody uses/has used them (not to their full utility i would hasten to add however).  I think knowledge of SUMIF (in non-financial situations) marks somebody out as above average.  Using VLOOKUP is the "average".

Before I joined the department where I now work, their idea of a serious power user was someone who could record a macro for refreshing query tables and printing off data sheets!

Richard



> I was on £7.50 an hour



Norie, I'm sure you were worth every penny :wink:


----------



## LySeRGinator (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't think the ability of an Excel user is strictly limited to within the application.

Along with the basic knowledge of the different functions etc. an effective user must also hold some knowledge of relational database theory and lateral thinking, in terms of what is possible and what is not possible given what you have to work with. Identifying limitations of data sources, as well as an understanding of what may be lacking and hence blocking the end deliverable, together with the knowledge to apply it all to Excel using functions, is in my view an effective user of Excel. ANd I'd also add that an average user of Excel should be an effective user of Excel.


----------



## Cbrine (Feb 9, 2006)

LySeRginator,
  Some good points.  My knowledge touches on everything from Excel, to MSacces, to SQL Server, VB, VBA, AS400, to setting up software, etc....  If I didn't have most of my other knowledge, I wouldn't be anywhere near as effective.  I know when to use Excel, or when to use Access or when to use SQL server.

Norie,
   I'm a Business Analyst, so they are not all idiots, there is hope!(Are they paying you the £500 yet!!)

Pivot tables are great for people that don't know how to use sumproduct and array formula's!!  I find them very constraining.  You MUST do it this way, I like the flexibility of building my own summaries.  Although, if it's a big summary, the pivot's are going to be pretty quick.  I also like the drill down options in a pivot.

Cal


----------



## Norie (Feb 9, 2006)

Cal

I've only met a couple of BA's.

One was this guy I mentioned - getting £500 a day to drink coffee.

The other was a friend of a friend who when asked what he actually did
acted as though he worked for the secret service and if he told you he would 
have to kill you..

I'm sure they're not all bad.


----------



## Cbrine (Feb 9, 2006)

****,  Where do I sign up!!!  I'm not sure what £500 a day is in Canadian $'s but I pretty sure that more then double what I currently make!!  I even quit drinking coffee about a year ago, so they would have to pay me to stand around or somthing instead


----------



## Norie (Feb 9, 2006)

It's about 1,009.18 CAD.

Or in layman's terms 11,542.2 Estonian Kroon's.


----------



## Cbrine (Feb 9, 2006)

Yeah, ummm...The multiplier just went way, way up  .  I'm not sure what an Estonian Kroon is but, I pretty sure I would like to make about 11,000 of them a day.


----------



## Norie (Feb 9, 2006)

Cal

How about 1866335 Venezuelan Bolivars?


----------



## boris_excel (Feb 9, 2006)

it funny that a lot of the posts use pivot tables to gauge the level of excel knowledge.  I wonder if its because I included it in my original post or people feel that this is a good indicator to gauge someone's excel ability.  what other measures do you use to gauge one's ability?  

i also agree that the 'average' excel user that i have seen falls below the pivot table range.  as a result, is the 'average' excel user actually a 'beginner' if you use the beginner-intermediate-advanced ranking?

B


----------



## Greg Truby (Feb 9, 2006)

I 2<sup>nd</sup> Mark; though I'd say Mark's describing the "median" Excel user, since you've got yer outliers like Cal & Richard who are so far above the typical user that they would skew the "average".  

And Norie, unfortunately to spend them Bolivars, yer probably gonna hafta be *in* Venezuela.  While it wasn't so bad when I was there several years ago, ain't so sure I'd be all that stoked to live in Caracas these days.


----------



## Norie (Feb 9, 2006)

Greg

What could you buy for 1866335 Venezuelan Bolivars?


----------



## milesUK (Feb 10, 2006)

Is it only me or should one not include layout and formatting in your 'average' skills definintion.

My experience is that sheets lacking any formatting are difficult to understand and the pertinent info (created by your Lookups and PT's) is not 'under the eye'.

I would expect a logical layout and a careful use of borders, font size, colour and condittional formatting, etc to be amongst an average users skills.

On top of that at least knowing that Comments, Sort, Filtering, Page Breaks, Charts, and Tools-->Options! all exist if not in regular use.

Just my 2p worth


----------



## Norie (Feb 10, 2006)

Miles

I know layout and formatting can be important, especially when the results
might be presented to other users.

But I would think actually getting the correct results would be more important,
and a nice presentation a cherry on the top.


----------



## milesUK (Feb 10, 2006)

Norie, Yes, I agree with your last statement. Data comes first but I also find that formatting is important to help guide the sheet users (me included) attention to the input/output ranges and present controls in a logical order.

An ugly car will get you to work as reliably as a nice one. Given the choice the majority (here's wher someone proves me wrong  ) will prefer not to drive dull cars with no character .

Appreciate that not everyone has the time/resources for a cherry tho.


----------



## Cbrine (Feb 10, 2006)

My thoughts on this would be that if someone KNOWS how to use vlookup or Sumproduct and not just being able to parrot the formula, would already be at a level of compentance that formating and page setup would be a given.  For instance, there's a girl, here at the office, that  I taught how to use vlookup.  She doesn't understand why it works, just that it does work.  Anything out of left field she just wouldn't be able to handle.  Questions like 
1.  If you have a vlookup formula that is correct, and data that matches on the two lists, but are still getting a #N/A error.  What's causing the problem?
Would filter out the chafe from the real user.
Answer:  Text versus numeric formating.  Leading or trailing spaces.

If they can answer these type's questions correctly, then I'm pretty sure any type of formating is not beyond them.

HTH
Cal


----------



## Greg Truby (Feb 10, 2006)

> What could you buy for 1866335 Venezuelan Bolivars?
> -Norie


Un tiquete de avion a Liberia, Costa Rica y unos días en unas playas ticas.  Pero también Curaçao está cerca.

An airplane ticket to Liberia, Costa Rica and a few days on Costa Rican beaches.  Though Curaçao is also close.


----------



## Norie (Feb 10, 2006)

Greg

Shouldn't that be posted in the newly named 'Questions in Other Languages' forum?


----------



## Mark O'Brien (Feb 11, 2006)

> I 2<sup>nd</sup> Mark; though I'd say Mark's describing the "median" Excel user, since you've got yer outliers like Cal & Richard who are so far above the typical user that they would skew the "average".



No I was talking about the arithmetic mean.  Although the median and the mode would probably give similar results.

Anyone that uses Excel is a user.  Millions of people use Excel but comparatively few are particularly skilled.  Like I said, the average user might know how to use SUM.  Chances are, the average user might still use A1+A2+A3.  (then spend 5 minutes tying to figure out why that doesn't work before puttin in the "=" sign)


----------



## Norie (Feb 11, 2006)

Mark

I've seen people use SUM like this.

=SUM(A1-A2)


----------



## Smitty (Feb 11, 2006)

> the average user might still use A1+A2+A3



Our CFO still uses that! But he's a die hard Lotus user too. 

As for the skill set needed for Excel, I'd say that a lot of it is being able to understand conceptually what you can do with the program and then being able to apply that knowledge to it.  (Patience and the ability to read the helpfile is a plus).  For instance, I think my first "complicated" formula was along the lines of a VLOOKUP.  I "knew" what I wanted to do, knew it was possible and figured it out.  

Although in my office, 99% of my users are folks who still do sales charts & stack rankings on 24x36 paper, without taking advantage of the wide format HP plotter we've had for years (despite being told about it repeatedly).  Granted, a cusp-of-technology business (in terms of users) we're not.  My frame of reference with regards to user-competence is here.  (Yes, that was a compliment...)

Smitty


----------



## Felix Atagong (Feb 13, 2006)

An average user would not, I repeat: NOT, send offers to a client in Excel with rows, columns or sheets hidden, especially when these contain information the client must not see. It's a tragedy I still encounter a lot...   Some people even don't bother to erase the formulae, so you see something like =Cost!A1*1.15. 

My holding company once send me a cost tariff, absolute cost, no extra charges, cross my heart and swear to god... unless I did an unhide and found out the real cost that was 15% less...

And I've got this client who sends me daily a (hidden) sheet that contains his complete clients database, names, adresses, phonenumbers... just to let me know what kind of product he wants to order from me... (I don't do anything with it, honest, I'm ethical enough for that, until the day he decides to go to the compettion - I'll know who to contact then  :wink: )


----------



## LySeRGinator (Feb 13, 2006)

> My holding company once send me a cost tariff, absolute cost, no extra charges, cross my heart and swear to god... unless I did an unhide and found out the real cost that was 15% less...



loooooool.. priceless  Obviously something to casually bring into any further negotiations with this particular client lol....


----------

