# Only in California



## Smitty (Jan 19, 2007)

Yup folks,

We can't take care of immigration,  but we can sure as hell try to legislate parenting:



> *Legislation would ban spanking young children*
> 
> SACRAMENTO, CALIF. — Spank your child, go to jail?
> 
> ...



There is absolutely no positive link between corporal punishment in earlier generations and their crime rates...Nope, none at all...The problem nowadays is that we obviously just aren't doing a good enough job of nurturing our youths' self-esteem right?



> *"The only thing a child learns by being beaten is that it's OK to beat or dominate children or animals that are smaller,"* she said.



Which explains my overwhelming urge to make Campbell finish her dinner, while torturing a helpless hampster.



> Critics blasted Lieber's proposal Thursday as excessive, saying it would step on parents' toes and force judges to decide whether a swat was a spank, a nudge, a push or a "love tap."
> 
> Assemblyman Ted Gaines, R-Roseville, said he does not condone abusive practices but that a swat, judiciously applied, should be left up to parents. "If I was talking in church, I'd get thumped in the head with a prayer book once in awhile," Gaines said. "It worked."
> 
> Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has taken no position on the measure, press secretary Aaron McLear said.



Three guesses as to how many children the good Assemblywoman has...

Good lord, somebody save me from this state.

Smitty


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## atmospheric (Jan 19, 2007)

Sorry Smitty, it's not only California:

http://www.nospank.net/n-d31.htm


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## Smitty (Jan 19, 2007)

http://www.nospank.net/n-d31.htm

Which, of course, WebSense, in its high mindedness, blocks.

Smitty


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## Scott Huish (Jan 20, 2007)

I don't remember everything I got spanked for as a kid, but it's probably a safe bet to say that I didn't do it again. But I do distinctly remember that if all you got was a talking to, you got away with it.


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## Andrew Fergus (Jan 20, 2007)

It's not just California Smitty - our wise and learned leaders [/sarcasm] recently passed a similar bill here (last month? can't remember and don't care).  The children that need protecting from their parents won't be helped by this law (they need more drastic measures) and the parents that follow this law will raise a generation of brats.  We actually need to protect ourselves from politicians and their wacky idealogies.

Just my 2c
Andrew


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## Smitty (Jan 20, 2007)

> We actually need to protect ourselves from politicians and their wacky idealogies.



You mean that generation of brats?

The same generation of nitwits who decided that nurturing our youth's self-esteem was so important that we can't keep track of score in youth sports, because everyone has to be a "winner"?  And you wonder why there are so many mis-directed, pants-around-the-***, brats running around cussing at their teachers & elders.  Because their parents are namby pamby simps who never got a good beating.  Hell, they get more life direction from their IPod's & cell phones than their "parents".

It reminds me of a great quote by Jack Nicholson from that awful movie "As Good As It Gets":

Secretary: "How do you write women so well?" 

Nicholson: "I think of a man, and then I take away reason and accountability." 

That's what stupid laws like this do...I for one will be a scofflaw and continue to swat my daughter when she misbehaves and I'm not going to worry about the %$#&* thought & morality police.

I'm with Scott:



> I don't remember everything I got spanked for as a kid, but it's probably a safe bet to say that I didn't do it again. But I do distinctly remember that if all you got was a talking to, you got away with it.



The six/seven words in my house you never wanted to hear:

"I'm going to tell your father" & "You wait until your father gets home"

I firmly believe that a healthy dose of fear brings a great deal of respect and sure as hell makes you consider the consequences of what you do before you do it. (Most of the time).

Of course, then comes college and all that goes out the window. 

Smitty


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## Joe4 (Jan 20, 2007)

> The same generation of nitwits who decided that nurturing our youth's self-esteem was so important that we can't keep track of score in youth sports, because everyone has to be a "winner"?


Yes, this part really get's me going.  If no one ever loses, how does one learn to be a good loser (or a gracious winner)?  

Unfortunately, in real life, you need to deal with losses and disappointments.  We do our children no favors by shielding from "losing", especially with things that are so unimportant like games.  Ironically, it is usually the parents that get more worked up over kids' sports losses than kids do.


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## Smitty (Jan 20, 2007)

> Ironically, it is usually the parents that get more worked up over kids' sports losses than kids do.



It's a very sad thing when some parents take it too far and interfere with the game.  But if you take a step back, those are probably the ones for whom a spank *was* a beating.

And they're the ones who could probably benefit the most from learning about sportsmanship by watching their kids.

Smitty


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## NateO (Jan 21, 2007)

On a lighter note...

Here's something else you would only see in California:







That particular Jeep Grand Cherokee, with the hood open, sitting beside the Lambo, has 620 bhp, and launches from 0-60 mph in 3.5 seconds!!!!  

That's faster than some of the more efficient algorithms I have drafted!


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## steve case (Jan 21, 2007)

Nate should get a level for his camera. 

Spanking?  It's a freedom issue, do we have the freedom to raise our children the way we see fit, or not?  

Every law enacted takes freedom away from somebody.


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## mikerickson (Jan 21, 2007)

"Every law enacted..." well, I guess that murder laws take away freedom, but  [diferent discussion]

This law along with the 
propsed law to label large sized clothes with obesity warnings;
laws to prevent smoking in cars while children are inside and;
proposed laws forbiding circumsision;
laws prohibiting the smoking of flowers (Mendocino is in CA(the topic of the thread);
.....

They all remind me of that old lady who is so nice, so concerned and went out of her way to let you know that what you are doing isn't good for you.

When did a nosey, meddeling spinster become the model for governmental action?


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## Smitty (Jan 21, 2007)

> I guess that murder laws take away freedom



But only after it's already been taken. 

I didn't see one of the commandments as reading: "Thou shalt not swat thy miscreant child on the ***..."



> When did a nosey, meddeling spinster become the model for governmental action?



Long before we were around (personally, I blame the 60's...)

And watch out, it could get worse now that Hillary's in the running...Men around the nation will feel (and possibly be) emasculated if that happens.

We'll only be allowed to watch Oprah & 60 Minutes and listen to NPR (National Communist Radio)...

But I digress...

Smitty

(Nice wheels Nate...Didja upgrade your ride after the break in?)


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## steve case (Jan 21, 2007)

Mike Ericson wrote:

<ul><tt>_They all remind me of that old lady who is so nice, so concerned and went out of her way to let you know that what you are doing isn't good for you. 
_</tt>[/list]


The term you are describing is "Busybody"

And:
<ul><tt>_"Every law enacted..." well, I guess that murder laws take away freedom, but [diferent discussion]_</tt>[/list]


Yes restricting the freedom of killers is a different topic.


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## Scott Huish (Jan 22, 2007)

> (personally, I blame the 60's...)



I also blame the fact that a lot of families can not afford to have a parent stay at home with the kids.

That and the fact that a lot of parents seem to trust the television to tell them how to raise kids. (Geez, it was on television so it must be true   )


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## NateO (Jan 22, 2007)

> (Nice wheels Nate...Didja upgrade your ride after the break in?)


Nope, I just upgraded the window. That's not mine... Nor did I take the photo, it's a random shot of a beach in So. Co. that I came across...  

That Jeep is the same base model as mine, but it has a very certain twin-turbo upgrade in it... There's a badge on it you can't see in that shot... My sleigh only has 420 reindeer pulling it, and can only go from 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds.


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## Greg Truby (Jan 22, 2007)

Your story made the morning radio shows here in KC, Smitty.  And StACase is correct: by and large any given law restricts some "freedom".  But stoplights are also golights.  It's always a question of balance; of cost/benefit.  Some children do need protection against physical abuse.  But as I believe has already been mentioned; it is unlikely that this legislation will stop such abuse.  For every case of real abuse that it might bring before the court it seems probable there would be one (or indeed more) instances where a good parent that give enough of a da** to try to raise his child well, is going to find himself spending money he could be spending on his family on legal fees to defend himself against spurious charges.  

I am curious about those that use allusions to kids' sports regarding our general societal shift to then "everybody's a winner" mentality.  How many of those using this metaphor have kids that play sports?  Or better yet, have coached? I've coached youth sports.  At least in my experience, the kids know if they've won or lost.  You do try to keep the team's morale up.  But you have to do so in a manner that's honest.  Kids can smell BS pretty well and you undermine your credibility if your words are all marshmallow "we're all winners!" fluff and contain nothing solid. I feel it's better to say "we got out-hustled on defense today didn't we" if that's what really happened.  If my boys really ran their tails off and gave it 100%, then sure, I tell them I'm proud of how hard they played.  There is something to needing to recognize that the kids did turn off the Playstations; get off their butts and take the field.  But one also needs to acknowledge the hard work and excellence on the part of those teams that won.  At least in our league, they do restrict the trophies to 1st, 2nd & 3rd.  Finish out of the top three and ya get nothing.  I have no problem with that because I've finished out of the top three and it sucks and that motivates ya a bit.


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## atmospheric (Jan 22, 2007)

*Scenario:* Jack pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1973 - Vice Principal comes over, takes a look at Jack's rifle, goes to
his car and gets his to show Jack.

2006 - School goes into lockdown, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail
and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for
traumatized students and teachers.


*Scenario*: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1973 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark.
Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.


*Scenario*: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1973 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal.
Sits still in class.

2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School
gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.


*Scenario*: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives
him a whipping.

1973 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to
college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster
care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that
she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's
mom has affair with psychologist.


*Scenario*: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to
school.

1973 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking
dock.

2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car
searched for drugs and weapons.


*Scenario*: Pedro fails high school English.

1973: Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2006: Pedro's cause is taken up by state democratic party. Newspaper
articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a
requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit
against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned
from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing
lawns for a living because he can't speak English.


*Scenario*: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July,
puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.

1973 - Ants die.

2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic
terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home,
computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is
never allowed to fly again.


*Scenario*: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee.
He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary, hugs him to comfort him.

1973 - In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job.
She faces 3 years in State Prison.


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## mikerickson (Jan 22, 2007)

Its hard to explain why the state shouldn't punish parents for spanking, but they should teach the truth of evolution (in opposition to the parents' superstitions).

Parents who have trouble distinguishing between spanking and beating need supervision.
Polititians who have the same trouble also need supervision. Bi-annual supervision.


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## Smitty (Jan 22, 2007)

> Polititians who have the same trouble also need supervision. Bi-annual supervision.



Preferably under heavy doses of Thorazine.

Smitty


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