# Colo's Html Maker or Excel Jeanie



## Lewiy (Jun 12, 2007)

Unless I’m just being blind, Excel Jeanie’s add-in for posting your worksheet has come on the scene in the last few weeks.  I notice that a couple of people have begun to use it religiously (naming no names – you know who you are  ).

Having downloaded it myself I see that there are a multitude of options which I don’t have time to even begin looking through properly.  But the question is, when it comes to posting an example on the board, is it any better than Colo’s Html Maker?

As far as I can see, the only real difference is the way in which worksheet formulas are displayed, which may actually be very helpful for explaining to board members who are unfamiliar with the way Colo’s works, however, if there are a lot of formulas in an example, it creates a huge list which can be a bit daunting.

Just wondering what everyone’s thoughts were on this


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## Von Pookie (Jun 12, 2007)

I downloaded this and installed it at home. I haven't actually used it yet, but for the moment just looking at the interface was enough.

Looking at the examples posted here using Excel Jeanie, the HTML code it produces is definitely nice and clean when compared to the HTML Maker results, but the interface looks VERY confusing.

To me, it just seems like for something to be used to only show small examples on a forum, it goes a bit overboard with the features.


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## Richard Schollar (Jun 12, 2007)

I agree the interface is very confusing to new users, but once you get used to it the added functionality is truly superb (being able to produce a gif from your worksheet is just damned useful at times  ).  You can amend which formulas get posted (eg to restrict to only a single cell) if required, but again the interface doesn't make it terribly obvious how to do this.

I like the Jeanie - I will use it in preference over the HTML maker in the normal course of business (and the formulas sure do look prettier in multi-colours!).


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## Scott Huish (Jun 12, 2007)

I like that it shows the formula, because sometimes the HTML Maker doesn't change the formula it shows when you change the cell selection. I don't know why it does that, which is why I started putting the formula in the post separate from the example.  With this new one, you won't have to do that. I think you can also do more than one area at a time which would be great for VLOOKUP examples.


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## Von Pookie (Jun 12, 2007)

> I like that it shows the formula, because sometimes the HTML Maker doesn't change the formula it shows when you change the cell selection. I don't know why it does that, which is why I started putting the formula in the post separate from the example.


Yeah, I believe that's something with the javascript. That hasn't worked for me in some time


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## SydneyGeek (Jun 12, 2007)

> Yeah, I believe that's something with the javascript



Apparently, Jeanie doesn't use any Javascript. I like that because browsers are getting more paranoid and blocking scripts by default...

Denis


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi all,

first I agree with you, that it is not simple at first view.
But for this are the help, example How To you find on
http://www.excel-jeanie-html.de/html/hlp_schnell_en.php

But I can tell you, that the formulaoptions where due to the german testers of excel jeanie html (who are just excel users)

Excel Jeanie Html is not only a Forum / Messageboard tool.
It's also a tool to bring excel tables to html with many options of css, masked cells etc... for people developing homepages and using tables.
So there is a reason why it looks a little bit overboard 

And if somebody has a question, there is even a (still nearly emty) forum for it:
http://www.jeanie-programme.de/fom/fo_na.php?f=1

Last but not least:
If somebody takes 10 minutes time to read a little bit in the help I wrote, he will get a nice tool, which produces pure and valid html code.
(Valid if no links are included, because for target blank), so its even xhtml.

I personally think of course that is a great tool  - it's developed over years.
And if a quick introduction on this board would be available, like for the htmlmaker, it would help too


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## erik.van.geit (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi,

To my sense it wouldn't be a large job to insert a "small interface" for Board-only-users. Only then I would recommend it.

It seems to me like this tool produces less bandwidth than the htmlMaker.

It would be great if the "back to sheet" feature which appears in Table-It (see my signature) would be implemented in those tools. Copy formulas in a thread, few buttonclicks and everything is in place on your sheet. How often are we exchanging replies, just because of some typos?

kind regards,
Erik


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 13, 2007)

Hi Erik,
It exactly needs two clicks to produce,
another two clicks to reset the area of shown formulas if neccessary,

and a few clicks for once to make it comfortable for you.

What is the problem?
(Like in Excel, you can just use the sumfunction, but still Excel offers more options  )


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## Von Pookie (Jun 13, 2007)

If I am understanding this correctly, I think Erik and I may be having the same idea...sort of:


> To my sense it wouldn't be a large job to insert a "small interface" for Board-only-users. Only then I would recommend it.



My thinking (which I didn't mention before), was why not simply make two versions? One version being a smaller add-in that does nothing but prepare the examples for use on a forum for the "board-only users," and a separate add-in that is the "full" version you charge for.


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## erik.van.geit (Jun 13, 2007)

Peter,

Not sure if we were talking about the same thing. Say you are reading a post with some formulas. Can you copy that post and return all formulas (and data) to the spreadsheet with a few buttonclicks?

Kristy,
I was thinking of userforms with a button "more options" - "less options". Should be quite simple.


little story
One of the largest tools I ever made was created for hundreds of users. (The estimations are between 1500 and 2500.) I was asked to create a second even simpler version, but decided to combine both: while the effort may have been larger at the start, it was easier to update the product later on.

I know how difficult it can be to "listen" to the users. As a phone-helpdesk of my own product my answers were often: "But it IS simple: check out the helpfiles.." or "Sure, you can do that! Didn't you see the button over there?".

Later on, when te product got more developed, I was asked to train the users: 90 minutes + free questions. Those training sessions - about 40 sessions with an average of 25 visitors -  learned me how people think and look differently at the products. It became more clear how the product needed to look like to suit everybodys needs.

One of the general rules - to my sense - is: *at first show only the strictly necessary, only when asked provide more options*.

best regards,
Erik


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 14, 2007)

Hi all,

I think: If you like it, use it, if you don't, forget it.

But I have a strange feeling, that something which is really good, is not liked by a few people (because it is good and better) and there is a great afford to find some things, which could make it feel bad. 

I'm so sorry, that the world is working this way!


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## Von Pookie (Jun 14, 2007)

We're not trying to pick on it--at least I'm not. We're not saying it is a bad program. It is simply a discussion.


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## erik.van.geit (Jun 14, 2007)

Peter,

After reading the entire discussion again, it seems to me that your last reply doesn't reflect what has been said.
The first reply seems to be an overall impression.


> the HTML code it produces is ... nice and clean ..., but the interface ... confusing


Also Richard who tested it a lot, did agree on that.

Also you got a nice quote


> Apparently, Jeanie doesn't use any Javascript. I like that because browsers are getting more paranoid and blocking scripts by default...



you are quite right here


> I think: If you like it, use it, if you don't, forget it.



my advice to you would be


> If you like the suggestions, use them, if you don't, forget them.



best regards,
Erik


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## Lewiy (Jun 15, 2007)

I feel bad now for starting a thread which has caused so much tension   

I'd just like to say that I like the end result of the program, it looks really nice, was just the UI that I found a little unintuative to begin with.  I'll probably stick with Colo for now as I'm used to it but I'll definately be having a play when I get some spare time.

Keep the peace people


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## Scott Huish (Jun 19, 2007)

I do have a question about it though. How do we know when there are new versions? For example, is the CTRL-SHIFT-ENTER thing fixed yet? I saw it addressed in the forum, but don't know if there is an updated version or not.


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 21, 2007)

Hi hotpepper,
because you have been one of the testers, there is no change in version for you to see. (But I had sent you a private message, and you should download the version exists)

For others (and you in future)  you can check version  in tab "more" and click check now.


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 21, 2007)

Hi all,

let's tell the truth!

When I asked for testers here - just testers!!! , the thread was deleted in a couple of hours.
(Because I had used it in the forum and I think the responsible people did not like the beauty)

Luckily Richard at least was able to read my thread and tested it.

He did'nt like the userinterface first but he saw the magic behind it after a few tests.

I had a few emails with the board people and responded to it and send them the download etc...
(Still waiting for a real answer)

Somebody told me, that there is a responsible guy for new programs.
(At this time I still looked for somebody to test it on an english enviroment, not looking for help on this board)

Still I cooperated and answered and send again to somebody else the details.
Then I got a message, that the responsible guy want to have the sourcecode.

I still was friendly also this request was and is absolutly ridiculous!
What do they think, that I give away month of development???

But it is so easily to test. Just use it and look at the produced html code.
You find, it's pure, no f... JavaScript and just plain!

Then after that, people tried a differnt approach to make look it bad.
Like unfriendly userinterface or ...
With two or three friendly words, one could have said:
"On the first view it is overpowerd, but ..."

By now I have understood, that the board people will absolutly fight my tool, in interest of htmlmaker.

Also, if anybody have some sense of html and todays dislike of JavaScript and is looking deeper in the magic of Excel Jeanie Html, it's massively put down.

Perhaps, because it's made by a german, perhaps it is just better, perhaps it is ...

Or perhaps it is not in the reach of the responsible people here.

It is a pitty, but in german messageboards, even some of them make it special available, because they understand it's beauty.

I'm really frustrated about the behavior here, but still I have a dream:

JeanieBeFair


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## Greg Truby (Jun 21, 2007)

Peter,

Just take a deep breath.  No one is calling your baby ugly! :wink:  

I have not tested your add-in.  Perhaps I will some day.  The folks here at the board have been honest, not disparaging.   Most have said that overall they like it.  They're simply offering some feedback on how you might continue to improve upon it.  Most of the folks that have contributed to this thread have written Excel applications themselves.  So we all understand how emotionally bonded we become to our programs and how it can be hard sometimes to hear even the best-intentioned criticism.

But please do understand that none of the criticism is malicious.  

The issues about checking it out have to do with times in the past where things have gone wrong. 

As far as source code goes... Colo's Add-In is open for all to see.  I cannot speak for everyone, but *that* is what I loved most about it.  As soon as I had time, I printed out large portions of the code and studied and learned from it.  I will always owe Colo, Ivan and Juan Pablo (the developers) a debt of gratitude for what I learned by reading their code.  

And as far as "because it's German".  Don't be ridiculous.  Good code is good code and no one here cares a milligram what country the guy who wrote it comes from. The HTMLMakers (regular & VBE) were written by a Japanese, a New Zealander & a Colombian.  So your comment about not liking it because it was written by a German is just plain silly! 

Kind regards,


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## starl (Jun 21, 2007)

Peter, I think you might want to consider the language factor here because it would seem you have misread/misunderstood much of our communication.

We requested a copy of your program to evaluate it for letting others use it on the board. And that's it. Yes, we would have preferred to review the source code, but we respect that you didn't want to provide it and trusted that there was nothing malicious to the board in it. Also, your program takes advantage of normal parts of the board. So, we have allowed others (such as Richard to use it). But we never said we'd advertise it on the board. Our evaluation was only to judge if we would allow users to use it.

People here have posted their opinions of the tool. Some really like it, some are iffy about it, others don't like it. That's the way it goes. As with anything publicly available, especially when the creator is around, people like to make suggestions for (in their opinions) improvement. And that's what I see going on here.

As for your original Tester thread. We do have rules here about advertising products, especially one that interfaces with the board. We had to move that thread because it could have potentially damaged the board - we had not had the chance to test your product ourselves. You cannot blame us for trying to protect the board's integrity.

And, on a personal note - I'm deeply offended that you would think we (especially myself since I have personally dealt with you) would hold your nationality against you.  Your nationality is only a factor when you make it so.


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## SydneyGeek (Jun 21, 2007)

Peter, 

Sorry that you took offense. None was intended. It's difficult when you develop something and do not get a completely positive response. I've been there too, but please take the criticism as constructive. 

I have used the tool for its most basic purpose -- creating a post for the Board. It did everything I wanted, and in fact your tool works better with Vista than the HTMLMaker -- at least in my experience. 

If it's accepted I intend to keep using it for posting to the Board; you get nice clean HTML. 

Denis


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## starl (Jun 21, 2007)

Denis - not sure what you mean by your last comment, but, to be sure/clear - you can use the tool at the board. It's not our preferred tool, but that's because we have no control over it, whereas, with html maker, we have some access/say to the code.


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## SydneyGeek (Jun 21, 2007)

Hi Tracy, 

Thanks -- I like the tool and will use it. Like I said, I have been having some trouble with HTMLMaker and Vista. This tool doesn't have those problems and, because the output is straight HTML, it shouldn't be an issue posting to the Board with it. 

Denis


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## Exceljeanie (Jun 22, 2007)

Hi all,
tx for the replies.
I agree that  the remark about being german was absolutly silly  it came just out of frustration and was absolutly not ok - sorry).

To sourcecode:
This tool not only reads out formulas. It has much more to it, like getting most of conditional formatting, recursive name checking, and more and more. Then it has many features which are not related to messageboards- for creating tables on a homepage with many features.
(Thats the commercial part of it)
If somebody would have had a deeper look at it, it would be clear at once, that the sourcecode of the dll  will not be shown. (If, I would not have created a dll, just left the code in the add-in).

@Tracy
Sorry when I offended you, that was not my intention and our contact was really nice. But you told me, that somebody else is responsible for checking the tool  and I did not get any response from this third person (only the request for the sourcecode). If he/she does not want to check it, just let me know and it´s ok.

Back to the critics:
My way of thinking is, that this is a good tool, which helps to show problems and answers and it is free for this purpose.
I can take and appreciate criticism  - especially about the ui - but it should at least be fair in that,  the critic should come after fully testing it and compare the 10 minutes to get accustomed to the ui to the result you will get then.
You can destroy a lot with one sentence .

That I defend the tool so massivley has nothing to do with commercial thinking. In reality many many people use it just for messageboards and do not register. I do not mind about that, because I originally developed it just for messageboards with the idea JeanieBeFair. And the hours I put in will never be paid for by the registrations.
I just think, that this tool really helps people to show a problem or show a solution within seconds (and of course it is my favorite baby  ).

So sorry, if I went overboard, but I'm still a bit frustrated, but that is my  problem .


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## starl (Jun 22, 2007)

Peter, you're not going to hear from the third person - I handle most of his board communications, when possible (that's *not* as controlling as it sounds - english isn't his first language and he's not always comfortable posting).

He looked into it as much as he could, and, as I said, he says it can be used, tho it's not the preferred method. but we won't stop anyone form using it.


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## SydneyGeek (Jul 1, 2007)

Another comment re Excel Jeanie:

I have found that HTMLMaker slows the launch time for Excel. Excel Jeanie does not, and the difference is noticeable on my PC (Vista, Office 2007, Core2Duo, 2GB RAM). 

Denis


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## Peter_SSs (Jul 1, 2007)

Exceljeanie Peter

I have been using your program in this forum for a while now and am gradually finding my way around it.

I was intrigued by something you wrote in a post in this thread..





> In reality many many people use it just for messageboards and do not register.


I do only intend to use it for message boards, but thought that I would investigate registration anyway as:
a) I was just interested to see what full registration would cost, and
b) I thought there may be a special message board registration that would at least stop the little registration reminder popping up every now and then.

What I found was that I could not find any "registration" links that took me to anywhere except here:
http://www.excel-jeanie-html.de/html/reg_en.php

Have I missed the right link or is there no way yet to register for either "message board" version or "full" version?


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## Exceljeanie (Jul 1, 2007)

Hi Peter,

I still have not put in the registration in english.
It will take a while, because I'm thinking about the way to do.
(Perhaps by PayPal)
The german version is registered via paying to my bankacount, but this ist not good for non EU members because of the horrible bankcosts.

The price for the full private license is 29.75 EUR with all features.
(There is no restricted registration)
I hope, I will get a solution the next two or three weeks.

But feel anyway free to use the tool for messageboards - a registration for that use is  just a thank you to the programmer. (It's free for using the forum button, only the remainder here and then will appear)


To make it clear for other readers:
Using Excel Jeanie Html on a messageboard with the forumbutton is free!
It is JeanieBeFairWare, that means: if you want to contribute to the work, you can register, but you do not have to. Only if you use the other features a registration is mandatory.


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