# MrExcel #1 on Top 10 List...



## hwalker (May 5, 2009)

All,

FYI, just wanted to let you know that we published an article highlighting the "Top 10 Online Resources for Mastering Excel" for the oDesk.com blog this morning.  We ranked MrExcel.com #1.  A huge thanks to all of you who have made our lives easier with your informative posts & answers over the years.  We couldn't have done all of those executive dashboards without you!

http://www.odesk.com/blog/

-Henry
oDesk.com


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## hwalker (May 5, 2009)

Actually the direct link to the article is here:

http://www.odesk.com/blog/2009/05/excel/

Thanks,
Henry


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## Jon von der Heyden (May 6, 2009)

Excellent!


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## Patience (May 6, 2009)

Cool! I just posted it on twitter too!


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

I would love to know the criteria by which you arrive at these results. 

I disagree with many of the statements, but for me the list loses all credibility with OzGrid at #2. Two years ago, Ozgrid was a useful site with many good, some great contributors, administered by over-bearing admins and run by a megalomaniac. Today it is a  rarely visited carcase run by a megalomaniac.


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## Jon von der Heyden (May 6, 2009)

xld said:


> I would love to know the criteria by which you arrive at these results.
> 
> I disagree with many of the statements, but for me the list loses all credibility with OzGrid at #2. Two years ago, Ozgrid was a useful site with many good, some great contributors, administered by over-bearing admins and run by a megalomaniac. Today it is a rarely visited carcase run by a megalomaniac.


 
Why not tell it like it is Bob... Hehe!

I'm chuffed that MrE made it to top spot but I must agree with Bob, Ozgrid wouldn't feature on my list. Why not swap it for one of these:

http://vbaexpress.com/
http://www.excelforum.com/
http://www.contextures.com/
http://www.cpearson.com/Excel/MainPage.aspx
http://www.mcgimpsey.com/excel/index.html

Tom Urtis' site seems to be coming along nicely too: http://www.atlaspm.com/excelfaq.html


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

Excellent point Jon. That Chip's site is not there is criminal, and Debra's site. And to be honest, the Usenet groups are better than any web based forum, many of them just feed off of the usenet groups - the web is just that which is accessed via a browser. 

So all in all, I still see it as a highly subjective view, and it doesn't even conform with my subjective view.


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## RoryA (May 6, 2009)

xld said:


> I disagree with many of the statements, but for me the list loses all credibility with OzGrid at #2. Two years ago, Ozgrid was a useful site with many good, some great contributors, administered by over-bearing admins and run by a megalomaniac. Today it is a rarely visited carcase run by a megalomaniac.


 
That's all true, but it does (or did) have a great profile of Richard... 

and it's missing J-Walk's site and  JKP's site amongst others, which I think should outrank YouTube!!


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## Colin Legg (May 6, 2009)

I also believe that you have to pay to start a post there now, so why that is factored in for EE but not for Oz....? _[I have no affiliation with either site]._





> That's all true, but it does (or did) have a great profile of Richard...


lol... indeed. 


And yet another one not yet mentioned (this could go on for a while!) - **** Kusleika's site.


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## Jon von der Heyden (May 6, 2009)

rorya said:


> That's all true, but it does (or did) have a great profile of Richard...


 
Oh it still does!!  Dave's holding onto that for a while!


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

rorya said:


> That's all true, but it does (or did) have a great profile of Richard...
> 
> and it's missing J-Walk's site and  JKP's site amongst others, which I think should outrank YouTube!!



... and Andy Pope's, which along with Peltier's site is one of the few that I visit to plagiarise (oops I meant research).


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## RoryA (May 6, 2009)

xld said:


> ... and Andy Pope's, which along with Peltier's site is one of the few that I visit to plagiarise (oops I meant research).


 
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as they say...


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## cornflakegirl (May 6, 2009)

[ hijack ] Rory - only just seen your new avatar - she's gorgeous!


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## Joe4 (May 6, 2009)

Yep, Chip Pearson's site is one of the best non-forum Excel sites I have come across.  I constantly reference his write-up on Event Procedures.  Great stuff!


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## Richard Schollar (May 6, 2009)

cornflakegirl said:


> [ hijack ] Rory - only just seen your new avatar - she's gorgeous!


 
Yup - that's exactly why I knew it *wasn't* a picture of Rory when he was younger


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## hwalker (May 6, 2009)

Colin_L,

Good point...I didn't realize that Ozgrid was a pay per thread site now.  How lame!  We've got all the right people in the room, so...let's hear it....*everyone post your top 10 excel sites.*

BTW, my criteria is based off of my experience...mainly googling VBA questions.  Ozgrid is really good for that, but asking new questions....you've right.

We're doing a top 10 excel blogs (and maybe Access) next...speak up now if you have an opinion there too.

-Henry
oDesk.com
Changing How the World Works



Colin_L said:


> I also believe that you have to pay to start a post there now, so why that is factored in for EE but not for Oz....? _[I have no affiliation with either site]._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

If you want our suggestions you are going to have to tell us the criteria, otherwise it is just a beauty contest (and OzGrid still fails).


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## RoryA (May 6, 2009)

cornflakegirl said:


> [ hijack ] Rory - only just seen your new avatar - she's gorgeous!


 
Thank you - I certainly think so!


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## schielrn (May 6, 2009)

These are my top 10 excel sites that I visit most frequently:

http://www.mrexcel.com/
http://vbaexpress.com/
http://www.cpearson.com/Excel/MainPage.aspx
http://spreadsheetpage.com/
http://www.contextures.com/
http://www.xldynamic.com/source/xld.html
http://www.mcgimpsey.com/excel/index.html
http://peltiertech.com/Excel/
Microsoft Office Excel's official website and knowledge base
http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/

There are others, but usually only found when searching something on google.

As someone else noted that Tom Urtis's site is coming along and it looks great in the starting stages.

I use to like ozgrid and still do like their archived posts, but sucks as a forum IMO now.

Also I like VBAexpress and I have an account, but for some reason I went there the other day not logged in and it wouldn't let me view anything.  Not sure if it was just my PC that day or if you now have to be a member there to view things?  If that is the case, then I'm not a big fan of having to register to view something that I want an answer to when I can get it somewhere else?

Also, Expert-Exchange seems really nice, but have never registered to actually see if it is worth it and not sure if I can post enough, so that it would be free for me, because why pay when I have mrexcel here and all of its resources, but maybe I am missing something about the site.

Well that is my 2 cents and take it for what its worth.


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## hwalker (May 6, 2009)

xld said:


> If you want our suggestions you are going to have to tell us the criteria, otherwise it is just a beauty contest (and OzGrid still fails).


 

XLD,  how about the top 10 websites for learning/mastering excel, and seperately (if you wish), the top 10 excel blogs...

-Henry
oDesk.com


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## hwalker (May 6, 2009)

Patience said:


> Cool! I just posted it on twitter too!


 
Thank you for the tweet!  

Everyone, if you like it, please digg it here:

http://digg.com/d1qOtq

...it's my first blog post with oDesk...I want them to ask me to do it again!

I'd actually like to do a follow-up top 10 now that everyone has shown me so many sites I've never seen before...

I didn't realize that there were so many Excel-related blogs out there...

-Henry


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## Patience (May 6, 2009)

My pleasure. 

I got a response from Jon Peltier - disappointed he was only 5th! Muahaha.


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## schielrn (May 6, 2009)

Patience said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I got a response from Jon Peltier - disappointed he was only 5th! Muahaha.


Well he would be #1 all-time for me with charts, but I don't use charts as often anymore.  Tell him sorry he was lower on my list for me.     But then again who am I compared to him.


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

hwalker said:


> XLD,  how about the top 10 websites for learning/mastering excel, and seperately (if you wish), the top 10 excel blogs...
> 
> -Henry
> oDesk.com




http://www.cpearson.com/
http://www.contextures.com/
http://www.andypope.info/
http://www.peltiertech.com/
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A0=EXCEL-L
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A0=EXCEL-G
http://www.vbaexpress.com/
http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/postlist.php?Microsoft-Excel-Cat=&Board=11
http://www.tushar-mehta.com/excel/
http://www.j-walk.com/ss

Can't do 10 blogs, they are generally boring, so this is all I come up with

http://smurfonspreadsheets.wordpress.com/
http://www.dailydoseofexcel.com/
http://roymacleanvba.wordpress.com/
http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/
http://xldennis.wordpress.com/
http://www.blog.methodsinexcel.co.uk/


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## barry houdini (May 6, 2009)

xld, I presume modesty forbids you mentioning your own site....

http://www.xldynamic.com/source/xld.html

it's in my top 10.....


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

barry houdini said:


> xld, I presume modesty forbids you mentioning your own site....
> 
> http://www.xldynamic.com/source/xld.html
> 
> it's in my top 10.....



Thank you Barry, my view is that it is need of a refresh. If only I had more days ...


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## Jon von der Heyden (May 6, 2009)

> Thank you Barry, my view is that it is need of a refresh. If only I had more days ...


I've especially like referring folk your site for an explanation of SUMPRODUCT.  But...I occassionally can't access it because it says you've exceeded your bandwidth.


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## barry houdini (May 6, 2009)

schielrn said:


> I use to like ozgrid and still do like their archived posts


 
Dave's avowed intent was to have a very searchable archive, perhaps that paid off to some extent.....

What I didn't like was that I went back there recently, looking for an old post of mine to refresh my memory. I found the thread but noticed that several posts had been removed so that it mostly made no sense. If I recall correctly, one post that was removed was mine, and it contained a link to MrExcel. I assumed that this had been "purged".



schielrn said:


> Also, Expert-Exchange seems really nice, but have never registered to actually see if it is worth it and not sure if I can post enough, so that it would be free for me, because why pay when I have mrexcel here and all of its resources, but maybe I am missing something about the site.


 
You only need to get 3000 points a month to keep it free. It's possible to get that by answering 2 questions so it's not particularly onerous. I like it for the new perspectives you get from some of the experts but there's a lot less traffic in the Excel zone than here, I think. In my opinion MrExcel is still the best for Excel


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## schielrn (May 6, 2009)

Thanks for the info Barry.  I have enjoyed that this thread was started because there are a few sites that I was not aware of.


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## xld (May 6, 2009)

barry houdini said:


> You only need to get 3000 points a month to keep it free. It's possible to get that by answering 2 questions so it's not particularly onerous. I like it for the new perspectives you get from some of the experts but there's a lot less traffic in the Excel zone than here, I think. In my opinion MrExcel is still the best for Excel


 
Yeah free for people who answer, but how do you get 3000 in the first place? You have to pay to get started. And what is the point of the points, you accumulate thousands for what? I remember answering a question there once and the OP never came back and gave the points to anyone who answered, so an admin allocated them evenly between me and some other guy. The other guy responded that he felt he should get them as his answer was the 'right' answer. Bloody pathetic. 

But anyway, I abhor Experts Exchange. Anywhere that charges for helping on Excel and giving advice is an absolute disgrace. All of these people came out of the womb as Excel savvy did they? No, they learnt whatever they know by climbing on the shoulders of real Excel giants. I have no desire to stuff the pockets of _______ and ___________.

*Edited by Nate Oliver:* This is neither the time nor place - we're not doing names to 3rd party sites, please, and these are Microsoft MVPs!


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## RoryA (May 6, 2009)

xld said:


> All of these people came out of the womb as Excel savvy did they? No, they learnt whatever they know by climbing on the shoulders of real Excel giants. I have no desire to stuff the pockets of _________ and ________.


 
What exactly makes you think that either ____ or ____ make money out of it? They both have jobs unrelated to EE. Everyone answering questions is a volunteer there, as here.

You also *don't* need to pay to get started answering questions, actually.


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## barry houdini (May 6, 2009)

I don't know _________ other than crossing paths with him a few times at EE but I like his response to a question about why he participates in the forum:

If you value knowledge and skills, participation in a support forum by answering questions is its own reward. No matter how much you know when you first start answering questions, you will quickly learn more. The people posting questions frequently use different parts of their hardware and software than you are familiar with. And the experts trying to answer questions have different backgrounds than you do. So participation in the forum is a continuous stream of new experiences.

The above might be justifiably applied to many contributors here and elsewhere, I think.

That extract is from "Cell masters" in Colo's Excel Junkroom


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## SydneyGeek (May 7, 2009)

xld said:


> http://www.cpearson.com/
> http://www.contextures.com/
> http://www.andypope.info/
> http://www.peltiertech.com/
> ...


 
I'd also add
http://www.excelguru.ca

I've found some pretty useful stuff on Ken's site. 

If we're branching into Access then...
http://www.utteraccess.com
http://www.mvps.org/access
http://www.allenbrowne.com

and good for VBA in Access...
http://www.vb123.com.
http://www.helenfeddema.com

Denis


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

I took out a bunch of names in this thread, please don't add them back, they're friends, they know what they're doing, and trying to help people.

Chip's site is the most amazing Excel resource, as a 1st-timer, what-do-I-need, website I have ever seen, in terms of Excel.

I had a chance to sit with Chip, who's a really good guy, for a bus-ride from Redmond to Seattle. I asked him, if I search on "OnTime" and "Pearson", do you pay for that? The answer is no, so, hit up that site.

And ours!


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## Jon von der Heyden (May 7, 2009)

SydneyGeek said:


> I'd also add
> http://www.excelguru.ca
> 
> I've found some pretty useful stuff on Ken's site.
> ...


 
Denis, for what it's worth I think your site has some pretty cool tips too!   You may not have as much content as the others but I find yours very easy to read and follow.


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## SydneyGeek (May 7, 2009)

Thanks Jon, 

Nice compliment! I'm working on some some new stuff at the moment...

Denis


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## Cbrine (May 7, 2009)

xld said:


> I would love to know the criteria by which you arrive at these results.
> 
> I disagree with many of the statements, but for me the list loses all credibility with OzGrid at #2. Two years ago, Ozgrid was a useful site with many good, some great contributors, administered by over-bearing admins and run by a megalomaniac. Today it is a  rarely visited carcase run by a megalomaniac.



Bob, I think you need to tell us how you really feel 

I would agree, Chip's site not being on the list is wrong.  I haven't used it for a while, but when I was learning to program to the VBE(even if I did ignore some of his advice about adding event code programmatically), it was invaluable.
As far as EE goes, yeah, the points are allocated incorrectly sometimes, and sometimes you get great points for an easy answer, and crappy points for a difficult and comprehensive answer.  It all balances out in the end though, and anyone there with points in the 200,000+ range know's thier stuff fairly well.


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## xld (May 7, 2009)

Cbrine said:


> I would agree, Chip's site not being on the list is wrong.  I haven't used it for a while, but when I was learning to program to the VBE(even if I did ignore some of his advice about adding event code programmatically), it was invaluable.



I don't use Chip's site personally, but I have read many of the pages there and I know that they are good stuff. It is often an easy response just to point a question at Chip's site. Chip's and Debra's are easily the most frequently referenced pages in my responses, so to me that means that they are both up there.



Cbrine said:


> As far as EE goes, yeah, the points are allocated incorrectly sometimes, and sometimes you get great points for an easy answer, and crappy points for a difficult and comprehensive answer.  It all balances out in the end though, and anyone there with points in the 200,000+ range know's thier stuff fairly well.



I just don't agree with charging for information that is freely available elsewhere on the web, and information that I doubt any of the responders at that site paid to obtain. But even worse, the people who do the work just get crappy points. As I said, I don't like the model.


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

Chip was saying his site gets something crazy, like 18,000 hits, per day. That's a ton of hits for an Excel site, no? 

(I think he publishes his stats...)


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## Domski (May 7, 2009)

xld said:


> I just don't agree with charging for information that is freely available elsewhere on the web, and information that I doubt any of the responders at that site paid to obtain. But even worse, the people who do the work just get crappy points. As I said, I don't like the model.


 
I guess EE probably is a good resource and you don't have to answer much to get the free access but although I was tempted to register as an 'expert' to get the free access I was put off by the idea of someone else pocketing a load of dosh for work that I do (that and Rory's a member and that being I can't see many of my answers being picked ).


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## schielrn (May 7, 2009)

NateO said:


> Chip was saying his site gets something crazy, like 18,000 hits, per day. That's a ton of hits for an Excel site, no?
> 
> (I think he publishes his stats...)


Whats the stat for this site?  Also maybe that is not unique hits?  I would say I hit this site 30-40 different times a day at least between closing it and then going back.


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

I'll have to look it up - but the number will be enormous. Microsoft blogged about a certain group of forums and I know we get more hits than it does, and it's huge.

There are some stats, here:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/MrExcel.com


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

Regarding Experts Exchange, it is important to understand that there are two very different perspectives of the site: the pay for information perspective and the expert contribution perspective. I made my first post online at Experts Exchange about five years ago and I did so with the same intentions as everyone else who posts online at any of the many forums and newsgroups: to help people and to learn from peers. The reason I posted there and not somewhere else is that Experts Exchange solutions are what almost always came up first in my Google searches, and I had previously paid for a subscription because I needed help in areas other than Excel. Since that first post I have made over 25K posts and answered about 7,500 questions, and have never strayed far from the site. During that time I have never lost sight of my original objectives. About two years ago Microsoft offered me an MVP award based solely on my work at Experts Exchange when they realized that the subscription model had nothing to do with the why and how of expert contributions. About six other Excel MVPs have been awarded in the past two years for their contributions at Experts Exchange and other sites.

  From the perspective of paying for information, please understand that what you are paying for is not necessarily the information, but rather the technology that drives the site. Experts Exchange was created with a single novel idea: take the question and answer model and add a grade and points which are then used to reward experts with levels of achievement. There are two very important facts about that novel idea: it was patentable (and was patented,) and it creates a more competitive environment which promotes more responsive and better results. Because of the expert's desire to accumulate points, askers (OPs) are less likely to be abandoned even when their questions are difficult or require a little more "custom" work than most of us are willing to provide without being paid. Granted, the grade and points system has flaws: excessive competition can have an adverse effect on the quality of the interaction with the asker, and experts, considering points their payment, are occasionally disappointed with the outcome. But the overall effect of this system has benefits to paying members and, being unique and patented, is being offered for a fee by the owners of the patent and the site. With the revenues generated they are continuing to make improvements to the site that free sites are not so willing to make or are not capable of making. This further enhances the paying member's experience.

  Kevin


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## Cbrine (May 7, 2009)

Plus we get free T-Shirts

Alright, I've never actually worn any of mine, but the new ones look like they might be OK to wear in public.


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## Greg Truby (May 7, 2009)

Shucks, if I'da knowed all ya had ta do was say EE three times fast and then mutter "Kevin" in order to get The Great Zorvek to appear, I'da done 'er two months ago after I got back from da summit.  Howdy, Kevin, nice of you to leave the EE house and come visit us.  (Does this mean now I hafta take Patrick up on his offer and start stopping by EE once in a while?  )


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

Patrick gets around a little more than I do. I'm trying to do some other sites but those points are addicting. My main secondary area is the Excel-L list. Some hard code dudes there who would never be caught dead at Experts Exchange.

To be completely upfront, I need to point out that the one post I did make here was to get under a particular OP's skin who dissed me and some others over at EE. However, it was a good post and did, in fact, answer the OP's question.

I do need to get out more. The points are cool but they tend to attract all manner of riffraff.


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## Colin Legg (May 7, 2009)

Hi Kevin,

What is the Excel-L list? 

Cheers,


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## RoryA (May 7, 2009)

Speaking of riff-raff, who let you in? Honestly, I turn my back for one minute...


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

The Excel-L list is one of many lists run by the LServe folks:

http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A0=EXCEL-L

It's an email interface - crude but very effective. The Excel-L list is the more advanced stuff, the Excel-G list is for more general topics.

Kevin


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

rorya said:


> Speaking of riff-raff, who let you in? Honestly, I turn my back for one minute...



No one. I am everywhere. I just don't post 

Why are you on your back, laughing your butt off? Too many pints? Kids...


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## RoryA (May 7, 2009)

That's not me (as you well know). You have been quiet recently - busy?


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

Very busy. And I got tired of Saurabh's ellipses.


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## RoryA (May 7, 2009)

you...seem...to...have...got...him...to...stop...recently...though...


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## Richard Schollar (May 7, 2009)

Rory, your ellipsist attitude worries me...

EDIT:  Hi Kevin!


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

Richard!

I have to say your VBE Immediate window trick for mashing cell constants is super cool and I have already scored points using it!

Thank you!

Kevin


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## RoryA (May 7, 2009)

What trick is that?


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

Patrick gets around? Where is he? 

The real question is whether Richard has used my Caller trick - someone got caught saying "it can't be done".  (it's not very practical)

On a slightly more serious note, let's try to keep this friendly. And welcome, Kevin!


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

rorya said:


> What trick is that?



Constants in a range of cells can be altered in place using an Excel worksheet formula and without entering that formula in any cells. To do so, first select the cells to be altered. Press ALT+F11 to open the VBE and then press CTRL+G to open the Immediate window. Enter the formula to use to alter the cell constants using the following VBA statement:

   Selection.Value = Evaluate("IF(ROW(),formula)")

To reference a specific cell or column use the Selection.Address method:

   Selection.Value = Evaluate("IF(ROW(),RIGHT(""00000""" & Selection.Address & ",5))")

The above example pads all constant values with enough zeroes to make the constant five characters long.


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

NateO said:


> ...used my Caller trick - someone got caught saying "it can't be done".  (it's not very practical)



Link?


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## RoryA (May 7, 2009)

Oh, that one...


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

Anyone want to place bets on how long the current Excel MVP lead will last?


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

Let's not do that bet, I feel bad for my friends at Microsoft right now, tough times...

Just to repro, you can tie this to any Forms Text Box (Shapes), in any version of Excel, 2007, XP, etc...


```
Sub foo()
MsgBox "Name: " & _
    ActiveSheet.TextBoxes(Application.Caller).Name
End Sub
```
I admit, I leveraged this off the master, Monsieur Laurent Longre.


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## Richard Schollar (May 7, 2009)

To be fair didn't I only say I didn't *think* it was possible?  I provided a reasonable alternative too   And if said person was using an ActiveX control, I'd have been right 

But it is a cool way to do it Nate


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## NateO (May 7, 2009)

I'm just teasing you, Richard - because it's fun. 

Your response was a good one, mine was irresponsible, guessing they might be using Shapes, it happened to be the case.

I'm not all bad, I did drag you down for a round when you got into Seattle...


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## zorvek (May 7, 2009)

NateO said:


> ...Let's not do that bet...



Good advice...the one layoff aside, we have still had three leads in as many years...that is more to what I was referring.


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## matthewspatrick (May 11, 2009)

NateO said:


> Patrick gets around? Where is he?


 
Here, finally.  I'm not sure why I put it off.  I guess maybe I was channeling Groucho Marx, not wanting to register at a board that would have me as a member


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## Jaafar Tribak (May 12, 2009)

The excel site that inspires me the most is definitely http://www.xcelfiles.com/  by Ivan F Moala. Strange that noone mentioned it on this thread 

Among other nice things, It has some really amazing Win32 programming stuff elegantly adapted to Excel - I've never found anything similar on the net or otherwise and i certainly have learnt a lot from it.

Regards.


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## Richard Schollar (May 12, 2009)

matthewspatrick said:


> Here, finally. I'm not sure why I put it off. I guess maybe I was channeling Groucho Marx, not wanting to register at a board that would have me as a member


 
Howdy Patrick 

Good to see you here!


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## barry houdini (May 12, 2009)

RichardSchollar said:


> Howdy Patrick
> 
> Good to see you here!


 
Seconded...


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## Greg Truby (May 12, 2009)

Jaafar Tribak said:


> The excel site that inspires me the most is definitely http://www.xcelfiles.com/ by Ivan F Moala. Strange that noone mentioned it on this thread
> Among other nice things, It has some really amazing Win32 programming stuff elegantly adapted to Excel - I've never found anything similar on the net or otherwise and i certainly have learnt a lot from it.
> Regards.


LOL. Jaarar, it would have surprised me had you said anything else!  You and Ivan sort of feed off of each other anyway. As far as the Win API stuff, there's only a handful of members like the Toms (Urtis & Schreiner), Haluk and maybe Nate that can keep up with you lads on that particular branch of wizardry. But yes, Ivan's site has some really amazing stuff.

Oh and "howdy!" to our friend, Patrick!


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## Smitty (May 12, 2009)

Yo Patrick!

Good to see you here at last!


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