# Excel Ribbon



## daniels012 (Jan 31, 2012)

I have used Excel for about 20 years now.  I was an avid Quattro Pro user before that.

I would like to here anyone's opinion about their thoughts on the Excel Ribbons. I know they came out in '07 version of Excel.  I just would like to here pro's and con's on what the experts have to say.

My personal opinion is I really don't like them.  I found that I recreated most of my mostly used items in my Quick Access Toolbar.

I have found that it actually has slowed me down.  Many times when I have a ribbon open Data Validate or Unprotect a sheet I then want to change a font... so I have to move up and go over to another ribbon.  A task much easier in older versions.

I would love to hear others thoughts and also give feedback to the powers that be at Microsoft.

Michael D


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## Taul (Jan 31, 2012)

I’m getting used to the ribbon but yeah, I think I have moved from hate to mild dislike.

Although I am still using 2003 on my main computer and 2010 on the laptop, so I’m not helping myself with a foot in both camps. 
I find things that I generally use together like conditional formatting and name manager should be closer.

There is probably some logic to the layout but it’s a new tricks and old dogs scenario. Maybe I should get rid of the old 2003 version and mentally move over.


I used to find this helpful for the basic stuff
http://office.microsoft.com/asstvid.aspx?&type=flash&assetid=XT010149329&vwidth=1044&vheight=788


.


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## Smitty (Jan 31, 2012)

The Ribbon grows on you, although I'm certainly not a fan, it was a direction in the product's evolution that had to be taken.  Note that Bill Gates was deadset against it, because he feared that it would alientate the exisitng user base.  But they had to have a way to market to newer users who are used to a more graphical element.  Fortunately, most of your old keyboard shortcuts still work, although in many cases, it takes an additional keystroke to let the Ribbon know that you want an older shortcut.

If you start to learn the Ribbon shortcuts you'll find it to get easier.


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## Firefly2012 (Jan 31, 2012)

Have you got a good source for the ribbon shortcuts Smitty?  I would find that useful.

I have uninstalled all legacy versions of Excel (prior to 2007) to force myself to use the ribbon and learn it.  I am really struggling to do so - the old interface just made sense to me, whereas the new is a different beast.  I use Alt+e+s+v to paste values a lot, and I find in 2007/2010 that I need to leave a brief paue between the s+v otherwise I just end up with a paste all.  It is very frustrating.


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## daniels012 (Jan 31, 2012)

Firefly2012,


> I use Alt+e+s+v to paste values a lot



I use this a lot myself.  I agree a simple shortcut would be easier.  I now use my Custom Access bar all the time for this.  (Not easier just convenient enough)

Smitty,
Being from way back before a mouse I also know the keyboard shortcuts.  I can't believe they actually changed quite a few of them.  One I use a lot is Control-F2 to go to Print Preview.


Michael D


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## Smitty (Jan 31, 2012)

Here are a few shortcut links:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/keyboard-shortcuts-in-excel-2010-HP010342494.aspx

http://www.shortcutworld.com/en/win/Excel_2010.html

I've never had a lag with /ESV?  Although you can also set up code to copy the selection and Paste Special with an assigned shortcut.


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## MrKowz (Jan 31, 2012)

Firefly2012 said:


> and I find in 2007/2010 that I need to leave a brief paue between the s+v otherwise I just end up with a paste all. It is very frustrating.


 
I haven't had that issue.  In Excel 2010, I hit Alt+e+s+v just as fast as I did back in 2003, and it works fine.


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## Trevor G (Jan 31, 2012)

daniels012 said:


> Firefly2012,
> 
> 
> I use this a lot myself.  I agree a simple shortcut would be easier.  I now use my Custom Access bar all the time for this.  (Not easier just convenient enough)
> ...



Ctrl + F2 still takes you into Print Preview.


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## Firefly2012 (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks Smtty 

That's interesting about you (Smitty, MrKowz) not facing any lag - I definitely get it in both 2007, 2010 and across different computers so i don't think I'm imagining it.


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## Smitty (Jan 31, 2012)

Try the code workaround.

With Selection
  .Copy
  .PasteSpecial xlPasteValues
End With


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## RobMatthews (Jan 31, 2012)

Is anyone else feeling really hamstrung by the inability to change standard panels? For instance, i want Strike-Through on the Font panel of the Home tab. Nuh. Cain't do that.  Gotta be on a custom panel.  FFFUUUuuuu.

Can I change the panels programmatically?


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## Smitty (Jan 31, 2012)

You can modify the Ribbon in Excel 2010, but not 2007.

Ken Puls wrote a large book on Ribbon Customization:  http://www.excelguru.ca/list.php?category/84-Excel-User-Interface-Customization

HTH,


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## xenou (Jan 31, 2012)

I do the following:

1) add a ton of QAT buttons and generally leave the ribbon minimized while working unless doing a lot of new design on a workbook.
2) use a combination of keyboard shorts and custom shortcuts I've created and learned over the years
3) use right click menus and custom right click items
4) customize the ribbon to make it *exactly* how I want it to be (more or less)

So I actually rarely see the ribbon except when I need to, in which case I find it's big menus somewhat useful since this is when I'm using the menus a lot.  It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it and since then I've really found I like Excel 2007 quite a lot -- though I stuck it out until (almost) everyone I worked with had upgraded long before me.

Edit: this is a good intro:
http://www.rondebruin.nl/ribbon.htm
Easy Menu for macros on the QAT:
http://www.rondebruin.nl/qat.htm
Changing built in groups:
http://www.rondebruin.nl/xmlribbongroups.htm


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## PaddyD (Feb 1, 2012)

For what it's worth, I find the thing truly hateful.


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## daniels012 (Feb 1, 2012)

I know all the new ways around.  We have 3 different versions of the software at work so I was just saying changing shortcuts is a pain.  Trevor, I certainly learned the Crtl+F2  since I use it a lot.  I just hate that when changing machines you have to remember the other.

Michael D


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## litrelord (Feb 2, 2012)

I definitely got the ESV lag on 2007 but it's fixed for me on 2010. I'm slowly learning the 07/10 shortcuts though and now use Alt + H > V > V for paste values.

As for whether the ribbon is better or worse, the only thing I've found better is due to not being able to easily change the ribbon in 2007 I now know where everything is on a standard installation. in 2003 and those prior I'd customised the toolbars and menus so much I couldn't find anything on anyone else's machine. Not sure that's entirely positive of course :-/

Nick


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## Firefly2012 (Feb 2, 2012)

Nick

i definitely get no lag with Alt+h,v,v so thanks for that!


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## MrKowz (Feb 2, 2012)

Another paste-special shourtcut I have found that is handy is to hit the right-click-menu-button on the keyboard (looks like http://www.lytebyte.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/right-click-keyboard-key.jpg) and press v.  No alt-shortcuts.


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## daniels012 (Feb 2, 2012)

MrKowz,
I love the right click menu button!
I NEVER knew that existed!!

Mcihael


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## xenou (Feb 2, 2012)

Me either - funny I never even pressed that key to see what it does...
My right click menu has only 5 built in items on it and otherwise my custom items (I use it quite extensively but in a targeted way so only what I want is on it).  I wrote up an article on this if anyone is interested:
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=579938


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## hrlngrv (Feb 2, 2012)

It's possible to back fill the old menu into the QAT, at least in Excel 2010. In Excel 2007 and later old VBA code which adds anything to the worksheet menu now adds those items to the Add-In tab. Excel 2010 provides an item for the QAT named Menu Commands which provides a drop-down menu containing all added menu items also shown in the Add-In tab. Put this in the QAT, then use a macro to add a new popup to CommandBars(1) and add all of the previous items in CommandBars(1) to this new popup menu. Voila, you have Excel's 'classic' menu in the QAT.


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## hrlngrv (Feb 2, 2012)

Picky: 20 years ago was early 1992, and Quattro Pro was only 2 years old then. QP came out shortly after Lotus won their look-and-feel lawsuit against Mosaic and PSI (I had been a VP-Planner user along with 1-2-3 at work).

I can understand the ribbon as a reconceived menu. MSFT reorganized Excel's menu between Excel 4 and Excel 5. Necessary in part due to VBA newly included in Excel 5. However, MSFT provided an Excel 4 menu as an option in Excel 5. I don't recall whether that went away in Excel 97 or 2000.

What I can't accept is that the ribbon is a useful replacement for toolbars, which could be docked on any side of Excel's application window or floating on top of document windows. In addition to placement flexibility, toolbars were much easier to program, and could be programmed using VBA. I have the impression Office 2007 and Vista were rushed to market as a lesser evil than waiting another year to get them right. Ditto more strongly Excel 2008, the Mac version so rushed to market MSFT had to drop VBA support only to bring it back in Excel 2011.

I'm glad I went straight from Excel 2003 to 2010. I couldn't have stomached Excel 2007. Excel 2010 still has a ribbon, but at least it can be customized. Not that I've done so. I've heavily customized my QAT, and haven't used the ribbon for months. If there were only some way to keep the QAT but dump the ribbon (not just minimize it).


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## hrlngrv (Feb 2, 2012)

It no longer does on many newer laptops. FWIW, [Shift]+[F10] does the same thing.


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## xenou (Feb 2, 2012)

> I've heavily customized my QAT, and haven't used the ribbon for months. If there were only some way to keep the QAT but dump the ribbon (not just minimize it).



Don't you sometimes need the menus?  For instance, if designing a new chart, or inserting a new pivot table - things you don't do frequently but when you do require some extra formatting.  Though I suppose if you really want to you can get to most things from right click menus.


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## xenou (Feb 2, 2012)

Surprised no one has yet mentioned the evil Cell styles gallery taking up so much real estate on the home tab.  If you create an addin with your ribbon customization and install it you can edit the ribbon to remove this (even for XL2007).  I guess there is a momentary flicker as 20% of the ribbon disappears (though I don't really notice it anymore now that I'm used to it - and I have about 7 addins that install when I start Excel anyway so I'm pretty used to a slight pause at that point).

Here's a ready made addin to replace the Excel 2007 home tab (without the cell styles gallery):
<a href="http://northernocean.net/etc/mrexcel/20120202_RX.zip">RX.xlam</a>
sha256sum: 0dc3d67faeb008cf746b19338b0b549976aa929453ac04b400ec9dfe603936c6
(see the links above for the how-to).

(Note re last post I did succeed in removing all tabs from the ribbon leaving only the QAT but I don't really see the point - the small border remains (it has the minimize, maximize buttons in it and the Excel help Question Mark).  It just doesn't have any tab names showing, so you don't gain much, not even real estate ... that's with 2007.  It looks the same as _startFromScratch = "true"_, except that it leaves you with the QAT. Dunno about 2010.

Note again:
Just noticed a few links on cell styles (the real thing, not the canned version) so I thought I'd drop them in:
http://www.excelguru.ca/content.php?146
http://www.excelguru.ca/blog/2011/02/22/question-on-your-modeling-practices…/


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## hrlngrv (Feb 2, 2012)

I don't use many pivot tables, and when I do I stick to default formatting. Everything I need to change is available from the right-click menu.

As for charts, I use a few custom  templates with all options in the templates to be left in or deleted. Trend lines are the only thing I'd need to add from time to time, but I haven't added any for a while.

Yes, there are some things only available from the ribbon, and when I need them, I have to use the ribbon. So more accurate to say I've reduced my ribbon use to only those times when there's no alternative.


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## xenou (Feb 3, 2012)

> Yes, there are some things only available from the ribbon, and when I need them, I have to use the ribbon. So more accurate to say I've reduced my ribbon use to only those times when there's no alternative.



Makes sense.  In future just say: _computer: add trendline_


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## wigi (Mar 3, 2012)

Smitty said:


> Try the code workaround.
> 
> With Selection
> .Copy
> ...



Or:


```
Selection.Value = Selection.Value
```


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## T. Valko (Mar 3, 2012)

PaddyD said:


> For what it's worth, I find the thing truly hateful.


 +1E100

The Excel 2007 ribbon looks like something you'd find on a "Playskool" computer!


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## hrlngrv (Mar 4, 2012)

One of the few things Excel 2007 got right was adding [Ctrl]+[Alt]+V as a shortcut for Paste Special, though arguably not quite as good as Star/Open/LibreOffice Calc's [Shift]+[Ctrl]+V shortcut.


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## T. Valko (Mar 4, 2012)

From a purely aesthetic point of view, the best thing about Excel 2007 is that the formula bar no longer infringes into the grid.


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## hrlngrv (Mar 5, 2012)

It'd be better if it had a setting to grow to as many lines as possible to show the formula.


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## Firefly2012 (Mar 5, 2012)

hrlngrv said:


> One of the few things Excel 2007 got right was adding [Ctrl]+[Alt]+V as a shortcut for Paste Special, though arguably not quite as good as Star/Open/LibreOffice Calc's [Shift]+[Ctrl]+V shortcut.


 
Did you mean Ctrl+Alt+v,v because Ctrl+Alt+v only brings up the pastespecial dialog for me in 2007.  It's a quicker option than Alt+e,s,v though (or Alt+h,v,v) although the position of the keys is a pita.


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## Firefly2012 (Mar 5, 2012)

hrlngrv said:


> It'd be better if it had a setting to grow to as many lines as possible to show the formula.


 
Agreed.


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## T. Valko (Mar 5, 2012)

hrlngrv said:


> It'd be better if it had a setting to grow to as many lines as possible to show the formula.


Agreed


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## Gerald Higgins (Mar 5, 2012)

hrlngrv said:


> It'd be better if it had a setting to grow to as many lines as possible to show the formula.


 
I thought 2007 DOES have that . . . 

Double down arrows to the right of the formula box ?
Or click and drag the thin grey line above the column header letters ?
Or are we talking about something else ?


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## hrlngrv (Mar 5, 2012)

I should have added the word automatically. You can manually set the number of lines in the formula bar, or scroll it, or collapse it to a single line, but there's no setting to display all of a really long formula *automatically*, i.e., almost in the same way Excel 2003 and prior do - just not hiding column headings.


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## Gerald Higgins (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh I see. I'll have to look again in 2003, I don't use it much these days, but I THINK that's a small thing I actually prefer about 2007.


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## hrlngrv (Mar 6, 2012)

I'd agree that preventing formulas from expanding over column headers in the worksheet frame is useful, but that was accomplished by making the size of the formula bar static except for manual, interactive resizing. If that's what you'd prefer, fine. However, I'd like an *option* (which you wouldn't need to use) which would tell the formula bar to resize automatically in order to show all cell contents.


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## Colin Legg (Mar 7, 2012)

If it automatically resized would you still want it to shift the entire grid though? I can just picture the grid wobbling up and down as I tab across a row. I'd hate that.


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## hrlngrv (Mar 7, 2012)

I'd like to have the option of seeing whether or not I could live with the frame shifting up and down. I can simulate this functionality crudely with


```
Private Sub Worksheet_SelectionChange(ByVal Target As Range)
  Application.FormulaBarHeight = 1 + Len(ActiveCell.Formula) \ 120
End Sub
```

which works OK with my screen resolution and default font, but it could get messed up with some proportional fonts.

I could live with a downward pointing arrow at the right end of the formula bar which expanded from 1 line to as many lines as needed to view the whole formula rather than just expanding to the last number of lines manually set. Or at least a right-click option with options for collapsed, last number of rows set manually (current left-click behavior) or all rows needed to display the entire cell contents.

I wouldn't use this all the time, only when writing/editing formulas. A lot of the time what cells are displaying is more important that what they contain, but sometimes what they contain is more important.


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## Firefly2012 (Mar 7, 2012)

That's a fair point Colin but that would be the beauty of having the option - you could choose which approach you prefer for the workbook at hand.


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## Colin Legg (Mar 7, 2012)

hrlngrv said:
			
		

> I could live with a downward pointing arrow at the right end of the formula bar which expanded from 1 line to as many lines as needed to view the whole formula rather than just expanding to the last number of lines manually set.


Yes, I agree that that would be a welcome (and very simple) improvement.


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