# How to help first-time posters



## MrKowz (Dec 10, 2010)

Something MrExcel brought up in a recent posting of mine is how can we help new posters in regards to making sure their post is clear for us to answer.

Here are the posts, beginning with his question, and relevant posts leading up to this discussion:

MrExcel


> Any ideas on how we can help those first-time posters do a better job of posting questions?
> 
> I did a small test on Weds night to pop-over a form to get new people to sign up for a newsletter. Maybe a better use is a pop-over form that gives them 3 quick suggestions of how to help us help them. Something that they can read in 14 seconds as they reach for the mouse and click the "X" to close the form.
> 
> ...


 
rorya


> One of the things I find useful at ExcelForum is that the user's profile specifies what version they are using. It's not always accurate, but it does help tailor your responses quite a lot.
> I don't think I've ever really seen any good ways of getting first timers to post clearer questions: when the questions are *really* unclear, it's more often than not because the user is trying to phrase things according to the way they think Excel might work, when they don't really know. Perhaps something to suggest they explain in simple terms *what* they are trying to achieve, as well as *how* they are attempting it?


 
JamesW


> Maybe a sticky with an 'example post' would help? Nothing fancy. I think it will saves everyones time as you won't get responses such as "Can you post example code" and "Please explain what you mean".
> 
> I have also seen forums where new users are sent directly to the 'Guidelines' sticky before they do anything. Can't remember if it's on this forum, but it's a nice touch.
> 
> ...


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## MrKowz (Dec 10, 2010)

I think that some of the issues with lack of information (or unclear information) stems from the fact that we do have many users who speak very little English, and feel that the only way they are going to get help is by attempting to translate their question into English. When that happens, a lot of wording gets messed up, questions become unclear, etc.

Also, I'm not sure if first-time posters is the issue. I see a LOT of posters (some with over 1000 posts) continue, time and time again, posting questions that take 5-6 followup posts until their question becomes clear. Yes, this is sometimes needed, but more often than not it could have been remedied with a better first post.

I like JamesW's suggestion of having a sticky with an 'example post'... maybe also include a guideline of questions to make sure to answer in the post:


```
What version of Excel do you use?:
 
What are you trying to accomplish/What is your desired output?:
 
What is your input and ranges used?:
 
Have you tried anything already?  If so, describe:
```
 
Using something like this, we could build a sample post of what is a "bad example" and what is a "good example":

This is an example of too little information:


```
[B]Topic[/B]: Please help
 
[B]Body[/B]: This formula worked for me until I needed more formats: =AND(A1=2,B1=1)
 
I'm trying to get more than three conditional formats
 
a formla would be great please help?
```
 
This is an example of a good post:


```
[B]Topic[/B]: Trying to get more than three conditional formats
 
[B]Body[/B]: I'm trying to get more than three conditional formats in my data.  Right now, I have the following conditions that work great:
 
=AND(A1=2,B1=1) - Red
=AND(A1=2,B1=2) - Yellow
=AND(A1=2,B1=3) - Green
 
But I need to add these conditions as well
 
=AND(A1=1,B1=1) - Orange
=AND(A1=1,B1=2) - Blue
=AND(A1=1,B1=3) - Grey
 
I use Excel 2003, and have no VBA experience.  Thanks!
```
 
Maybe also toss in there a post that has WAY too much information. Remind users to explain it in detail, but be concise. There are some posts on here that I find I pass up because I open it up and it is one LONG paragraph of information... most of which is just fluff. (Yes, I know I'm a culprit of this!)

I'll see if I can come up with a really good sample-posting that we can use as a sticky (if this route is deemed appropriate). The above I just threw together to get the ball rolling.


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## Peter_SSs (Dec 10, 2010)

My response is in relation to the 'Excel Questions' forum only.

There is already a Sticky (Guidelines for posting)  that covers most, if not all, these points and more. Given that the people with poor opening posts either have not read the Sticky or have chosen to ignore it, I'm afraid I cannot see another Sticky achieving anything more.

You get good, clear questions and you get poor questions. Sometimes posters answer follow-up questions from helpers and some don't. Some posters say 'thanks' for answers and some don't. I think it is all just part of a public forum like this.

There is also a Sticky about how to post a screen shot and yet many new posters ask how they can display their sheet. Again that would indicate that they haven't read the Sticky.

So whilst I admire your sentiment and would be happy to see other ideas, I don't expect anything is likely to make a significant change to the quality of opening posts.

If you look at any of the other Excel forums, who I'm sure will all have tried different things, the problem remains the same. I'm very happy that this forum doesn't go down the route of some others that come down heavily on posts that do comply exactly to all the forum rules.

I also have to say that when I first came to this forum to ask a question, I didn't read any of the Sticky's before posting. I was in a hurry to get an answer, had never used a forum before and wouldn't have known what a Sticky was even if I had noticed them at the top of the forum.


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## Taul (Dec 11, 2010)

A few ideas:-

1. Can a modification be made to vBulletin to show some text when the "New Post" button is clicked? but that would target everyone, not just new posters.

2. When people register (new people only) an email reminder of post structure and information required can be emailed to them i.e. before they post for the first time. ok I know a lot of people tent to read the forum for quite a long time before they actually post, but it would target the people that register and post on the same day.

my two-penneth


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## starl (Dec 11, 2010)

New members already get an email with HOW to post (with graphics).. yet we are still bombarded with emails that people can't figure out how to post.


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## Taul (Dec 11, 2010)

starl said:


> New members already get an email with HOW to post (with graphics).. yet we are still bombarded with emails that people can't figure out how to post.



My bad, it's been a while since I first registered 
I guess we are stuck with what we have


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## starl (Dec 11, 2010)

There's also an information bar on the forum visible only to new members to help them out.


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## Norie (Dec 11, 2010)

As for the language thing, there is the Questions in Other Languages forum which isn't really used perhaps as much as it could be.


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## diddi (Dec 11, 2010)

would it be worth creating an index of solutions to problems already posted, sorted into categories so that first time posters who dont really know how to ask their question can browse a topic area that may even solve the problem, or at least give them the right words to explain what they want.


```
'ive been looking at thread.index.2343465 and was wondering if you can do this with several columns at once?'
```

so often one sees a post "need help with X", but the real question is completely different.


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## SydneyGeek (Dec 12, 2010)

Unfortunately I think this belongs in the too-hard basket. 

I'm not sure what load indexing would put on the system. It would have to be automated or else it would be impossible to keep up, and automated indexing would be pretty hit-and-miss. 

A couple of years back MrExcel had a Wiki which was supposed to provide a resource for formulas and VBA. It was closed down because it got so comprehensively spammed that the moderators were spending a significant part of their time just cleaning it up. 

I like the idea of helping newcomers to see what constitutes a good or bad post. As several people have already said here, there are stickies, emails and info bars already in place. Some people just ignore them. It's likely that a new sticky will get ignored too. 

Denis


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## diddi (Dec 12, 2010)

yeh i must admit that stickies arent really my thing.  i tend to look and see what others are doing and go from there.

as an example of indexing, i really like what chip pearson is doing with his index.

http://www.cpearson.com/excel/topic.aspx

i wouldnt index everything on mrexcel but the standout solutions to perennial problems and the interesting one-offs would be most valuable. i acknowledge the logistics are challenging, and that in the end it my not be viable.


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## crook_101 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi all,

Being relative new here, I also must admit when I first asked a Q, I didn't look at any of the stickies....

An index would be great however I realise that this could be difficult to set up/manage/maintain. Also I am sure that it would be mainly used by the respondents as a reference point/to link responses to and not the OP as if we follow the logic through from above, they are not going to trawl through the index if they don't actually know what they are looking for eg, no use calling a index reference "How to Concatenate Cells" if the OP is looking for, in their mind "how can I join these three cells together....??"

Whilst I admire the aims, I think that we may gain something from this exercise but I don't think it is going to be used mainly by newbies.

My tuppence worth

Cheers,
Ian


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## diddi (Dec 12, 2010)

in many ways mrexcel is a victim of its own success because it so often appears in the top hits from search engines. type in 'excel help' and there it is. perfect! now make a post: i want to redesign a nuclear power station using excel. how do i start a blank sheet?

if we index the basic stuff using everyday language as crook_101 says, but ensure it is well categorised to avoid trawling excel noobs (as distinct from mrexcel noobs) might be invited to 'start here'

i still think that indexing as i described previously would be very useful. just the other day i tried for ages to find a thread i had been posting to, but did not start. it had a stupid title completely unrelated to the contents and i didnt ever end up finding it. i think it was titled 'help needed'. that cut it down straight away....


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## SydneyGeek (Dec 13, 2010)

diddi said:


> i still think that indexing as i described previously would be very useful. just the other day i tried for ages to find a thread i had been posting to, but did not start. it had a stupid title completely unrelated to the contents and i didnt ever end up finding it. i think it was titled 'help needed'. that cut it down straight away....



I agree with the idea. Just not sure how it could be implemented, is all. 
And surely a helpful title like 'Help Needed' would have reduced the search to no more than about 50,000 threads?

Denis


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## yytsunamiyy (Dec 13, 2010)

my 2 cents: 

First timers will or will not read any information thrown their way, no matter how it is presented (sticky, mail, extra bar ....). 
If they don't read it, their post may be suboptimal.
If they are lucky, a kind soul will spend time to find out what it is they are actually after, if not they might start thinking about changing their question / wording / explaining their problem better.
If they don't they won't get help.

This is their problem, not mine. The information is there - read it and use it. If you are too lazy, don't be surprised if you don't get the desired help. 

What ever additional information you offer first timers, they will still have to read it first. 

An index is a nice idea, but won't be terribly useful to somebody who has the calculator next to his computer to input the sums in Excel. If an experienced poster links to an indexed article, the OP will often come back asking "I don't see how summing figures automatically helps me. Can you please redesign the nuclear power station for me? - And please don't forget that I have to power it with green bananas."

Same goes for good posts / bad posts examples. It is difficult to strike the right balance between enough and too much info. I tend to err on to the side of too much.  Only experience gives you an idea of how much info is needed to answer your question. And if you don't even know what your question is - then how would you know how much information is needed? 

Example: I have heard of pivot tables and have seen them in action. I never have designed one myself (no need so far / no large enough data-set). If I ever needed to design a pivot table, how would I know what to ask for and which information you need to give me a helpfull answer?

Would: "I have a data-set with speeds, times and direction of cars on some streets. I want to find out on which street at which time the cars go fastest on average. Can you help me make a pivot table that gives me the answer?" suffice? Or would you need waaaaaaaaaay more info? How would I know if I don't know which info is needed to set up a meaningful pivot table? how would an example post help me?

EDIT: This actually looks more like a dime than 2c to me


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## JamesW (Dec 13, 2010)

yytsunamiyy said:


> First timers will or will not read any information thrown their way, no matter how it is presented (sticky, mail, extra bar ....).
> If they don't read it, their post may be suboptimal.
> If they are lucky, a kind soul will spend time to find out what it is they are actually after, if not they might start thinking about changing their question / wording / explaining their problem better.
> If they don't they won't get help.


 
Which is why I suggested having a 'YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE POSTING' thread appear automatically when first signing up. That way you force users to read the 'rules'



yytsunamiyy said:


> Same goes for good posts / bad posts examples. It is difficult to strike the right balance between enough and too much info. I tend to err on to the side of too much.  Only experience gives you an idea of how much info is needed to answer your question. And if you don't even know what your question is - then how would you know how much information is needed?
> 
> Example: I have heard of pivot tables and have seen them in action. I never have designed one myself (no need so far / no large enough data-set). If I ever needed to design a pivot table, how would I know what to ask for and which information you need to give me a helpfull answer?
> 
> Would: "I have a data-set with speeds, times and direction of cars on some streets. I want to find out on which street at which time the cars go fastest on average. Can you help me make a pivot table that gives me the answer?" suffice? Or would you need waaaaaaaaaay more info? How would I know if I don't know which info is needed to set up a meaningful pivot table? how would an example post help me?


 
You would probably need some example data, which can be explained in the 'good post' example, such as:

A2:A100 contains the street
B2:B100 contains speeds
C2:C100 contains times
D2:D100 contains direction

Which can easily be answered with a 'tutorial' on pivot tables.


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## snowblizz (Dec 13, 2010)

JamesW said:


> Which is why I suggested having a 'YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE POSTING' thread appear automatically when first signing up. That way you force users to read the 'rules'


Technically you don't force anyone to read the rules, you force them to click past a screen with the rules. There's a difference. 

When was the last time you read a software license agreement? The one that pops up anytime you install something. Personally for me it's a "yeah yeah blah blah click next" situation.

What it could do I guess is get a few extra people to look at it, but other than that I'd say it is hoping too much.


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## Expiry (Dec 13, 2010)

I think the biggest hurdle in all of this, which you'll never get past is that most first time users that ask an Excel question are not Excel users. This means that they don't know what they're asking for and often the ultimate solution actually highlights that the problem they have is not the problem they thought they had.

An example: I've helped someone at my work redesign a report. He has a rag status on various sections and I've asked him how he determines this with the aim of using conditional formatting for him. He just said that he just decides, so it's not something that a formula can be used for. It turns out that actually, he decides whether it's red or green based on a series of scores that he's worked out on an unrelated piece of work.

So he already had the information, but he only realised that because I quizzed him on it and forced him to open up.

We're almost like Psychiatrists.


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## JamesW (Dec 13, 2010)

snowblizz said:


> Technically you don't force anyone to read the rules, you force them to click past a screen with the rules. There's a difference.
> 
> When was the last time you read a software license agreement? The one that pops up anytime you install something. Personally for me it's a "yeah yeah blah blah click next" situation.
> 
> What it could do I guess is get a few extra people to look at it, but other than that I'd say it is hoping too much.


 
Yes but users will actually be shown the 'rules' rather than them having to click and open them. I'm sure alot of people never even open the rules sticky and read it.

I'm not sure how you can compare license agreements with forum rules. License agreements are lengthy and contain mostly the same information as each other.  Whereas the forum rules would contain example posts etc.


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## RoryA (Dec 13, 2010)

IME, the more people use the forum, the better they get at posting (especially if given a few gentle nudges). One-off posters will never read rules, hints or tips or use the search feature generally (though I wonder how many are only one-off posters because they don't get a response to their incomprehensible questions?)
One thing that might help would be if the new post screen had a few comments on it about useful thread titles or specifying versions. I rarely even read questions with titles like "Excel help" these days, but I appreciate the forum ethos is not to enforce titles and tags and whatnot.


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

Again - just throwing out ideas, but what about being able to use the report-post button to help single out some posts that don't seem to be getting many replies due to poor information/format.  That way a mod can take a cookie-cut explanation of "Tips on how to get more replies" and PM it to the person, reminding the poster that you "noticed that a recent posting did not get many replies, possibly because it lacked key information or logic."

I know that I tend to read messages sent to me through a PM from a user on whatever forums I am on rather than the "read this before posting" thread.

I can definitely see faults in this idea, but it might be a seed for more ideas


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## JamesW (Dec 13, 2010)

Good idea MrKowz, but what stops a user spamming the button after waiting 2 minutes for a reply.  I'm sure this would be rare, but I can see the mods getting rather pissed off with it!


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

JamesW said:


> Good idea MrKowz, but what stops a user spamming the button after waiting 2 minutes for a reply. I'm sure this would be rare, but I can see the mods getting rather pissed off with it!


 
It would be something that more regular posters would tend to do, i'd imagine.  It wouldn't be explicitly pointed out to people, especially new users.  Heck, how many times do you think a new user reports a post for it being duplicate?


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## Jaafar Tribak (Dec 13, 2010)

I think posters are more likely to read the posting guidelines when they click the _*Submit Reply *_button.

A warning popup window (Just a couple of lines & maybe a link to the Posting guidelines- people can be too lazy ) that informs new posters about their slim chances of getting an answer if their question is not clear & logic and give them a chance to revise their question is more likely to get noticed and acted on.

Having a popup window appear each time a new question is posted can be annoying but this functionality could be eliminated after a number of posts ( ex: first 10 posts) by which time the new user should hopefully be educated.


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## Joe4 (Dec 13, 2010)

> Again - just throwing out ideas, but what about being able to use the report-post button to help single out some posts that don't seem to be getting many replies due to poor information/format. That way a mod can take a cookie-cut explanation of "Tips on how to get more replies" and PM it to the person, reminding the poster that you "noticed that a recent posting did not get many replies, possibly because it lacked key information or logic."


Umm, you do realize that we Moderators do not get paid for this, it is a volunteer position, right?

Quite frankly, I think the volume would be so large, that it would become overwhelming.  We would probably need a lot more Moderators (and some to replace the ones who burn out doing the same repititive tasks over and over again).

I often search out unanswered posts that require more information and post back asking the person for more information.  I think anyone can do this (not just Moderators) if it appears to be on a topic that you think you may be able to help with.


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

Joe4 said:


> Umm, you do realize that we Moderators do not get paid for this, it is a volunteer position, right?


 
I'd volunteer to give a helping hand 

But as I said, tossing ideas out there... even if it is an unrealistic one.


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## Joe4 (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, there's a fine line.  We don't want to become an over-moderated forum, and we try very hard not to become this.

I see a common thread in a lot of these posts.  A lot of them can be summed up by saying "*how to you make someone do something that they do not want to do*?" (whether that be reading something, using better titles, being more descriptive in posts, acknowledging acceptable solutions, etc).  On top of that, how do you do it without badgering or harassing them?

If I had the answer to that, I would be a very rich man!


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

Joe4 said:


> I see a common thread in a lot of these posts. A lot of them can be summed up by saying "*how to you make someone do something that they do not want to do*?" (whether that be reading something, using better titles, being more descriptive in posts, acknowledging acceptable solutions, etc). On top of that, how do you do it without badgering or harassing them?
> 
> If I had the answer to that, I would be a very rich man!


 
Candy... lots and lots of candy... 

Or become a dictator... I don't reccomend that path though, because we all know what happens then.


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## Colin Legg (Dec 13, 2010)

I totally understand the sentiment of the thread. 

One of the great things about MrExcel is that it is pretty relaxed for a moderated forum. It's moderated enough to protect its members from unpleasantries but not so much that everyone has to watch their p's and q's. That sort of balance is extremely difficult to find but the current moderating team has it pretty much nailed and they should be commended for it. I think that many of the proposals on this thread would compromise that delicate balance. IMO there isn't a magic solution to getting people to write good posts from the outset: as Rory said, it comes with experience.


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

What about an Excel-Questions FAQ?  I can't count how many "multiple criteria count/sum" questions I come across, or how many "delete rows that meet x criteria".  Perhaps in there, we can provide scenario-like examples.  That way we can kill two birds with one stone; reduce the number of redundant posts and also, for those who read it, provide decent examples that they can choose to follow (if they wish).

Also, in browsing the FORUM FAQ, I noticed that there is something there that we have been talking about this whole time...

Direct people to this link:

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/faq.php?faq=mrexcel_faq#faq_faq_0102


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## starl (Dec 13, 2010)

Link added to New User Notice, which I've also activated for everyone to see (temporarily).


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## MrKowz (Dec 13, 2010)

starl said:


> Link added to New User Notice, which I've also activated for everyone to see (temporarily).



I like it Starl!

Just me being nit-pickey... you forgot a period at the end.  Also, should it be "For more instruction" or "For more instructions"?


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## Peter_SSs (Dec 13, 2010)

starl said:


> Link added to New User Notice, which I've also activated for everyone to see (temporarily).


Thanks Tracy, that's helpful to be reminded of what new users see (or at least have the chance to see).


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## Peter_SSs (Dec 13, 2010)

MrKowz said:


> Just me being nit-pickey...


Far too so I'd say since this is an Excel site not an English spelling/grammar site. Otherwise I'd be tempted to ask whether it should be "nit-pickey" or "nit-picky" or "nitpicky"?




MrKowz said:


> Also, should it be "For more instruction" or "For more instructions"?


In my mind either one is correct. You can go to the link to read more instructions or to receive more instruction.


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## diddi (Dec 13, 2010)

that's being a bit knitpicky isn't it =)


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## diddi (Dec 13, 2010)

tongue in cheek:

direct new posters to this thread and they will see how frustrating it is to field convoluted illexplained questions with sensible solutions, especially when they dont stick around long to expand their OP.

tongue out of cheek again 



you know, my pet hate in a post:


Dear everyone, help me with my problem which i cant explain.


bump


BUMP


come on guys********  BUMP


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## Cindy Ellis (Dec 13, 2010)

diddi said:


> you know, my pet hate in a post:
> 
> 
> Dear everyone, help me with my problem which i cant explain.
> ...



What they don't realize is that as soon as it's bumped more than once, those of us who don't want to jump into the middle of someone else's solution will skip over their question completely, looking for a post with no replies, or a post with only 1 reply that's been asked and replied to by the same person.

Every now and then I browse posts that have a few responses, but only if the subject matter seems interesting...certainly not if the title is "Need Help ASAP!" 
Cindy


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## JamesW (Dec 14, 2010)

Cindy Ellis said:


> What they don't realize is that as soon as it's bumped more than once, those of us who don't want to jump into the middle of someone else's solution will skip over their question completely, looking for a post with no replies, or a post with only 1 reply that's been asked and replied to by the same person.
> 
> Every now and then I browse posts that have a few responses, but only if the subject matter seems interesting...certainly not if the title is "Need Help ASAP!"
> Cindy


 
You hit the nail on the head Cindy.

I look for threads that have no replies, or I check who was the last to reply, if it was the same person who created the thread then I will take a look.


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## snowblizz (Dec 14, 2010)

I'll be darned. *Another* thread containing stuff I'm interested in. Now behave everyone so this won't disappear too!


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## Rekd (Dec 14, 2010)

To be honest, I don't think the new users are going to read that.

I think the best way to deal with this very common problem is to create a little script to check the number of posts a user has; if it's less than (say) 10, pop up a message box telling them (briefly) to be descriptive.

Something in-line like this notice will be skipped over because there is already a lot going on in the top half of each page. 

If you want to get their attention, pop something up into their face a few times.



> Also, I'm not sure if first-time posters is the issue. I see a LOT of posters (some with over 1000 posts) continue, time and time again, posting questions that take 5-6 followup posts until their question becomes clear. Yes, this is sometimes needed, but more often than not it could have been remedied with a better first post.


 
These folks (along with the "I need help" topics) need to have thier posts deleted and be sent a message to try again when tey learn to communicate their needs more effectively.

Sounds rude, but there is waaayyy too much traffic on this board.


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## Joe4 (Dec 14, 2010)

> These folks (along with the "I need help" topics) need to have thier posts deleted and be sent a message to try again when tey learn to communicate their needs more effectively.


There are others forums out there that operate that way, this is not one of them.  


> Sounds rude, but there is waaayyy too much traffic on this board.


You speak of "traffic" on the board like it is a bad thing?  Our goal is not to reduce traffic.  

We would like people to make better posts, but we aren't going to threaten them with post deletion or banishment if they don't.  Tracy has attempted something to see if it helps.  Will everyone use it?  No.  But if some do, than I would consider it successful.

I think in most cases, nature runs it course and takes care of itself.  People who post bad questions often get little help.  Most either learn and start making better posts, or they eventually give up and stop posting because they are not getting help.


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## Rekd (Dec 14, 2010)

Joe4 said:


> There are others forums out there that operate that way, this is not one of them.
> 
> You speak of "traffic" on the board like it is a bad thing? Our goal is not to reduce traffic.


 
That wasn't my intention. I'm an admin for a forum called CNCzone, which has slightly more users than Mr. Excel so I was just equating my experience. My intention was that there's too much traffic to be able to sift through all the incoherent posts. 



> We would like people to make better posts, but we aren't going to threaten them with post deletion or banishment if they don't. Tracy has attempted something to see if it helps. Will everyone use it? No. But if some do, than I would consider it successful.
> 
> I think in most cases, nature runs it course and takes care of itself. People who post bad questions often get little help. Most either learn and start making better posts, or they eventually give up and stop posting because they are not getting help.


 
Never said anything about banishment. No need to put words in my posts. 

Nature won't run its course in this case. It is getting to be worse, actually. Letting the habit continue does not eventually stop/slow it, it will encourage it.

You'd be doing your regular members (like me) a favor by eliminating the incoherant posts and requiring slightly more thought to be put into them, kind of like the thought that goes into helping them.  

I guess it's like being at school and having a small group of kids off to the side asking radom incoherent questions that distract from the real lessons.


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## Joe4 (Dec 14, 2010)

> Nature won't run its course in this case. It is getting to be worse, actually. Letting the habit continue does not eventually stop/slow it, it will encourage it.


Are you basing that statement that it is getting worse based on the 7.5 months you have been a member on this board?  

This is how we haven chosen to Moderate this board.  We do not read every single thread on the forum, we are all volunteers.  We have no interest in going through all the threads and "deeming some questions unworthy".

We liked to think that part of our popularity is due to the fact that we are more laid back than many others Excel forums.  For those who do not like the philosophy of this board, there are a variety of Excel forums out there with less traffic that Moderate their boards differently.


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## Rekd (Dec 14, 2010)

Joe4 said:


> Are you basing that statement that it is getting worse based on the 7.5 months you have been a member on this board?


 
 Um, no. Just trying to help and there's no need to get testy.

I'm basing it on my experience over the last 7 years of building up CNCzone from nothing to something the size of MrExcel while limiting the number of useless posts. 



> This is how we haven chosen to Moderate this board. We do not read every single thread on the forum, we are all volunteers. We have no interest in going through all the threads and "deeming some questions unworthy".


 
You CAN'T read every thread in the forum, there's too much junk to sift through! And it is not that they are unworthy, it is that they are unreadable. You are putting more words in my post...

That's my point and, as luck would have it, the point of this entire thread. I'm trying to provide a solution (that worked already) and you're giving me a hard time about it.



> We liked to think that part of our popularity is due to the fact that we are more laid back than many others Excel forums. For those who do not like the philosophy of this board, there are a variety of Excel forums out there with less traffic that Moderate their boards differently.


 
MrExcel is popular because of SEO. Same reason CNCzone is popular. 

How you deal with that popularity is going to dictate the direction the forum takes. Right now it's headed down the road to a cluttered, un-organized pile of Excel posts where users searching for data have to sift through pages and pages of junk to get what they're looking for.

Like I said, I'm just trying to help. If you want to ride my *** about that's fine, I'll stop trying to help.


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## diddi (Dec 14, 2010)

whilst i dont condone deletion of posts, i do see merit in Rekd thoughts.

i made a post elsewhere, which i cant find right now, the gist of which was 'i feel like there are a lot less interesting OPs that i want to investigate further'. there has recently been for me, a clutter of 'delete this row based on the color of the users shirt', finding duplicates, 'help me i cant read the prompts in Insert>Function' sort of OPs, which is fine except that ive already looked at 100 others the same.

as i said earlier, we are the victim of our own success.

can we detect without mod intervention bumped posts and target them with some possible reasons why they have not been replied to.  recently, there was an obscure post which i had no idea about how to help, and after a while i posted to the guy, some reasons why OPs get skipped, but that in his case because it was a quiet time of day he may need to come back later and ask again when other members with different skills are about. he thanked me and i saw him back at another time.

in getting people to change behaviour, there has to be a 'what's in it for me?'
if people dont see that they will benefit from change, they wont.

Sample popup: (for crit and tearing to pieces )  wording is moot


```
Why doesnt anyone answer my question?

Hi from MrExcel, we see that your question has not been answered and we would like to help you get a better result.

There are different reasons why questions don't got a reply:
* We cannot understand the question.                (see help.html)
* Nobody has the skills to help right now.  Try asking again later
* You where rude.                                           (see etiquet.html)
* Something else                                             (see morehelp.html)
* You asked a very common question.                 (see ournewindex.iwish.html)
* You posted a link.                                          (see idontdoexternallinks.html)
* Your posted 245000 lines of uncommented code  (see getalife.html)
* More reasons
```


@ snowblizz
thread is still going!   (for now )


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## Jaafar Tribak (Dec 14, 2010)

Rekd said:


> ... Right now it's headed down the road to a cluttered, un-organized pile of Excel posts where users searching for data have to sift through pages and pages of junk to get what they're looking for.



I totally agree with the above.

It also disourrages visiting the forum to answer questions.


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## repairman615 (Dec 15, 2010)

I love this board, it is easily the website I visit most and spend the most time on!  Please don't ever change the colors of the forum.

For diddi and anyone else who would like to improve searches to find threads and more and, even specific by poster.

I came across this awhile back and to may dismay, I could not find this thread again...even though it was right under my nose.  I tried using the advanced search using a variation of NateO  's  name, without finding this link below.  Yesterday I found it and after reading this thread here, I thought somebody could benefit if the did not know this.

I love MrExcel's website!!!  (I can admit it.)

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174000
Hope the above helps any searches go smother.

Thanks NateO for taking the time to write this and sharing insight.


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## diddi (Dec 15, 2010)

if regular users can't find things (that they themselves posted to) then how do we expect newbs to do it?


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## MrKowz (Dec 15, 2010)

diddi said:


> if regular users can't find things (that they themselves posted to) then how do we expect newbs to do it?



It is quite easy to find your own posts through the User Control Panel or through the Advanced Search.  However, the more you post, the harder it will be to find that post... and that is true for ANY forum.  If you find a post that you feel you will refer to a lot, or if it just stands out... bookmark it.

I have no problems with the amount of posts on the forums here.  I actually find myself bored around 12pm-3pm CST when the forum comes to a screeching halt!  However, I think that we have covered this topic pretty extensively, and some good AND bad ideas have stemmed from it.  Hopefully some things have been taken note of and we see an increase in first-poster quality.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Dec 15, 2010)

My view is that if we can do more to encourage members to make more  effort to describe their problem, and if we can assist them, then we  should do it.  There have been plenty of good suggestions here and as  you can see admin have taken an active interest so that's a good thing.

When I first started posting here some members had a few tips in their signatures.   Like most, I never *really* explored the guidelines.  I first  discovered the code tags because of PCG's signature.  In fact, before my  current signature, I pretty much just copied Domski's.  Now, after  adding a few more links, I like to think that my signature helps others  improve their posts.

So, whilst this is a good discussion, there are some members involved in  this discussion that could do the board service by publishing a link to  the guidelines in their signature, or some other tips that are helpful.

One of the big attractions of this board, for me, is that I know  whenever I logon there is a question waiting.  I like this board because  of its’ popularity.  I know how to search out answers on this board and  the quality of the posts returned is largely due to the quality of the  search criteria (I tend to use google and then search this site).  I  think applying draconian rule here will deter new posters, and I think  it will also be off-putting for many of the big-hitters.  I like this  board because I know that when I post a problem, it is likely to be seen  by one of these big-hitters.  There are a number of MS MVP's that post  here.  Many tell me this is their favourite board.  When I ask them why  they say it is because of the fast pace and because of the friendly  nature.  Stricter enforcement might deter them away.  These are the guys  I really learn from.  These are my mentors.  If we lose just one of  them, then that is a big loss to all of us.  Of course there are other  big-hitters that aren’t MS MVP’s, and the same applies…

Of course not everyone shares my view.  And not everyone wants to  participate in a fast pace board.  I also agree that perhaps the volume  of badly-constructed first posts is slowly on the increase.  If any  member has a real problem with this, then I think the answer is to just  skip that post.  There are plenty of other interesting discussions to  join.

But the point I made in the beginning is that everyone can do a little  bit to improve this board.  We are all volunteers here, we make this  board what it is, and the quality of this board is determined by us.


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## MrKowz (Dec 15, 2010)

Very well put, Jon.  I enjoy the fast-paced posting here as well... sometimes actively posting/watching up to 10-15 posts at a time.  While my knowledge may not be up with the MVPs, I do try to at least take care of the "easier" posts so that the more skilled users can tackle the rough ones.

I've kept a rather colorful signature to try to attract attention to it since I started posting here, asking people to use CODE tags, back up their information, and recently asking that people provide examples.  I like how your signature uses a smaller font with links to more lengthy explanations, which I'll likely hijack a few things from.


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## sous2817 (Dec 15, 2010)

Not sure if it's possible, but can you allow OP to edit their titles after the 10 minute window?  That way, if someone posts something with a title of "NEED EXPERT HELP BEFORE MY 10:00AM EXCEL CLASS!!!!" anyone who clicks on the link and reads the post could then suggest a more appropriate title for the post, which would in turn help everyone.

I'm not suggesting they notify a moderator and have the moderator do it, but a friendly "you know if you changed your title to 'Help deleting rows with duplicate values', you probably get a better response".

It seems a lot of times people just don't know better, and while you can have links galore directing them to posting guidelines and tips, no one really reads them.  They just register for the board, click "ok" or "I understand and agree" until they're able to post, post their question that's been asked 1,000,000 times but they can't search for it because people are using unhelpful titles.  

Also, would it help increasing the stickies to include generic topics with comprehensive solutions like: "delete rows / columns based on criteria", "count based on colors", "adding based on multiple criteria", and maybe a few more of the questions that are asked time and time again? 

As an example, I have referenced this post quite often when I needed to delete rows using VBA.  There's a ton of information in it and it generally answers 99% of my questions around deleting rows / columns.  Granted, it's not going to solve all of the bad posts, or stop the people who have no desire to learn but just want the answer to their specific problem, but I don't think it could hurt.


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## Domski (Dec 15, 2010)

FWIW I don't think this forum has a problem at all. The relaxed nature suits me and if anything the volume of individuals willing to answer questions almost outweighs the questions asked. Okay, there's a few posts that slip through either because they are worded badly, asking too much or nobody knows the answer but they are relatively few of them.

I only post regularly on one other forum and the moderation is a lot more strict on there. Some would say it's better others that the strictness puts novices off.

I always think back to the first time I looked at a spreadsheet and hadn't got the first clue. If I'd known there'd been forums to ask questions on my first would have been along the line of:



> Subject: "Please help!!!"
> 
> Question: "I've got a screen with lots of empty boxes in that I appear to be able to type words and numbers into. Can you tell me what it's for?"



Actually, I think my first post was along those lines 

Dom


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## Peter_SSs (Dec 15, 2010)

Domski said:


> FWIW I don't think this forum has a problem at all. The relaxed nature suits me and if anything the volume of individuals willing to answer questions almost outweighs the questions asked.


I am pretty much in agreement with this.If there was so much wrong with the forum we wouldn't have the huge number of question posters or helpers. 

Comments have bee made that there is too much traffic in the forum. My view is that we have so many good quality helpers who just like to answer questions, there needs to be a high volume of questions. Imagine the frustration here if the forum was so well documented/indexed with pefect titles and concise answers that virtually everybody could easily find their answer without posting a question. With only 10 new posts a day and a few hundred helpers looking for questions to answer ...  

I also think topic titles are pretty much irrelevant (though I do have a thing about URGENT requests and often point those posters to the posting guidelines). How many threads do we see (with excellent titles) along these lines?

OP: "Array formula required". 
Helper: Supplies a simple non-array formula to do the job.
OP: Oh, I didn't know you could do that.

OP: "vba needed to colour cells for given conditions"
Helper: Provides in-built Conditional Formatting solution.
OP: Oh, I didn't know about Conditional Formatting.

I have seen some great threads and got significant enjoyment from helping in some of them that have 'useless' titles. So I tend to look at questions rather than titles.

In terms of searching, I don't search titles, I search posts - and usually find what I am looking for without much problem. Threads/posts that I think I might want to locate in the future, I bookmark and have categorised those bookmarks in a way that suits me, but may not suit others.

I don't think we need more Stickys. People generally don't read them and it just means you have to scroll down further to find.

I do see some merit in JVDH's suggestion of putting a few hints in the signature block and I may take up on that since mine has no help there. However, there are some signature blocks that are just too big in my view.

To re-cap, I haven't seen much in this thread that would be likely to make this forum significantly better (or easier to moderate) than it already is.

If anybody could come up with a way to stop us being spammed so much, that would be a help.


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## snowblizz (Dec 15, 2010)

Peter_SSs said:


> I also think topic titles are pretty much irrelevant (though I do have a thing about URGENT requests and often point those posters to the posting guidelines). How many threads do we see (with excellent titles) along these lines?
> 
> I have seen some great threads and got significant enjoyment from helping in some of them that have 'useless' titles. So I tend to look at questions rather than titles.


I'm not sure I'd call them useless. Obviously you can't take them at face value, but I do feel they contain some value. Basically, there's quite a lot of traffic and an information provider (IP) can't really follow all threads. Also most of us have some areas where we are weaker and know "this is something I can't do". As such the topic title is the primary filter, even though it is not strictly accurate as in the examples you provided. However note that they contain an important piece of information. You may know when opening the thread what the person is looking for. So in the cases you posted you know the person is looking to colour the cells and you can make a decision that "hey I know about that". I e.g. don't look at anything talking about Pivottables because I'm totally useless there. Admittedly the flipside is that "vba for colouring cells" would "scare" away people who do not know vba and there'd still be topics which would continue to be "mislabelled" by people who don't know what they are asking for really. Though I think that risk is much lesser with regards to IPs.
"Plz help urgent" won't tells us anything about the problem, but even a semi-bad topic can give pointers for the IPs which thread their expertise is needed in.

Being able to give guidelines on how to present your problem is something I hope to do as part of my research. I think a large part of the problem is that people are only taught "Excel skills", it might be more useful if it also included "how to find help". I told a colleague as much when I was asked what needs to be included in a basic Excel course.


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## diddi (Dec 15, 2010)

must agree with snowblizz.  anything with pivottable in the title and i dont even consider looking, as for other areas i know i am no good at. title is the difference between me engaging in helping or not.  i have to be bored beyond belief to start looking at 'help me now' posts.


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## Peter_SSs (Dec 15, 2010)

snowblizz said:


> I'm not sure I'd call them useless.


I'm not sure I did. I called them 'useless' - in the context of this thread often bringing up the idea of threads with titles that don't tell you enough about the problem therein.



diddi said:


> title is the difference between me engaging in helping or not.  i have to be bored beyond belief to start looking at 'help me now' posts.


One of the good things about a forum like this is that we are all free to pass over whatever we want. However, as I indicated before, I have found some of the questions that I have most enjoyed lurking behind such titles.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Dec 15, 2010)

Peter_SSs said:


> If anybody could come up with a way to stop us being spammed so much, that would be a help.



I reckon we should have some sort of consortium that we publicly list the handle and IP address of every spammer we ban.  Or some sort of international web-based DB that get's updated as and when we ban a user as a spammer.  And then in turn our forum software can reference that DB when a new user registers, and block the user from registering if the likelihood is that (s)he is a spammer.  Maybe rather than block just hold the registration in a moderation queue so that we can validate the user.  I think a spammer wouldn't bother pursuing if they find they get placed in a registration mod queue.


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## Taul (Dec 15, 2010)

Most of the spammers are listed here http://www.stopforumspam.com/

It's a site I use to check new registrations for another forum I help to run. I can only do it because our site has low traffic and only about 3 to 5 new registrations per week, so checking manually is easy and new people don't have to wait for long before I get around to authorising them.

I kinda assumed a site as large as Mr Excel would have another (maybe automated) system for that.


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## snowblizz (Dec 15, 2010)

Peter_SSs said:


> I'm not sure I did. I called them 'useless' - in the context of this thread often bringing up the idea of threads with titles that don't tell you enough about the problem therein.


Well you did use the word in there somewhere. I do think I am somewhat understanding what you are getting at. And I'm as such not really taking a stand on the issue of should people making unhelpful titles be summarily executed, I think it is a bit drastic myself.  However to me it seems the topic is an important first impression you make on a forum which is likely to impact whether you get help or not. I wouldn't open such a thread only to tell them their title is unhelpful. I do also to some degree look at "plz help urgent" in case they are left unanswered, but it'd be nice to see in advance whether I can do something else than think "I hope  someone more skilled will see this".
I would say it is not quite the attention grabber people think, and in fact can have the opposite effect and as such it is one thing I would probably suggest people think about before they post. 



Peter_SSs said:


> One of the good things about a forum like this is that we are all free to pass over whatever we want. However, as I indicated before, I have found some of the questions that I have most enjoyed lurking behind such titles.


And that's also something I'm trying to explore, how do you as a "helper" pick which threads to look at, assuming the traffic is too high to look at them all. I did not too long ago notice eg that it is possible to scroll over a topic and get some kind of "tooltip" of the thread, but in the main to me the topic seems to be the main thing people look at when making a sorting decision.

My hypothesis if you will, is that a more content specific title is more likely to attract the good kind of attention. As the burden of information seeking is placed rather largely on the "helper" and not the one seeking help I would think it was good idea to make it as easy as possible for the "helpers". As you note "urgent" is a red flag to you of sorts. And the "unhelpful" titles is something mentioned over and over as problematic.

I'm sort of getting ahead of myself here, but how do you look at the questions witout looking at the topic. I assume you mean you just read the thread regardless of the topic?


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## Domski (Dec 15, 2010)

snowblizz said:


> I'm sort of getting ahead of myself here, but how do you look at the questions witout looking at the topic. I assume you mean you just read the thread regardless of the topic?



I look first for unanswered threads, then bumped ones (one post with reply by OP). Lastly I'll have a browse through the rest to see who's replied, if it's one of the gurus I'll generally leave it be otherwise I might have a look to see if I can suggest anything. Other than that I'll have a browsed through threads to see what I can learn.

Dom


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## SuperFerret (Dec 15, 2010)

I just generally have a browse through the first couple of pages on the Excel questions board, if something interests me I'll have a look, especially if it looks like a question I would be likely to ask.

I try to subtly suggest improvements if I'm already replying to a question and I can see an unhelpful title or excessive bumping. As many people have said though sometimes they acknowledge and improve, and other times they just ignore.

You can take a horse to water...


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## Joe4 (Dec 15, 2010)

Here's a little tip that everyone may not know about that I often use with "bad thread titles". When browsing the forums, if you hover over any thread title, it shows the first few sentences of the post. So you can sneak a peak at what the thread is about without even going into it.


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## Taul (Dec 15, 2010)

Domski said:


> if it's one of the gurus I'll generally leave it be




This point raises the issue of forum etiquette.

Is it “the done thing” to leave posts alone if one of the MVP’s has already responded?
If so, then I have committed a few sins already.


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## Joe4 (Dec 15, 2010)

> Is it “the done thing” to leave posts alone if one of the MVP’s has already responded?


Absolutely not! If you have something of value to add to a post, please feel free to post it, regardless of who may have responded.

I, myself, am a MrExcel MVP, but not a MS MVP. Many a non-MVP has posted solutions in threads that I have responded to with answers better than mine. 

That is one of the great things about this forum - not only do I get to help others, but I also learn a lot along the way from other users.


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## SuperFerret (Dec 15, 2010)

Joe4 said:


> Here's a little tip that everyone may not know about that I often use with "bad thread titles". When browsing the forums, if you hover over any thread title, it shows the first few sentences of the post. So you can sneak a peak at what the thread is about without even going into it.


 
I have used this before, but have found that some particularly badly/unusually laid out questions just bring up a lot of gibberish (if they've used a table/screenshot/smiley) or they start with background about themselves/their problem which means you have to go in anyway 

Although noticing this has helped me change how I write new Threads so as to display better in this 'bubble'


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## Domski (Dec 15, 2010)

Paul-H said:


> Is it “the done thing” to leave posts alone if one of the MVP’s has already responded?



Hell no, they need bringing down a peg or two 

Dom


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## arkusM (Dec 15, 2010)

I found/find that it is really difficult to ask a question sometime because I don't know what I don't know, therefore don't even know *what* to ask. The more I learn the better my questions become. But the first few questions are tough because my knowledge level was so low...
If I could say something to new posters is try to describe what you are trying to accomplish, not the steps but the end result. 

Getting people to adopt a behavior is notoriously difficult. One way to try is to educate them into asking better questions, but that requires patient experts to coax the info out of the OP and show them the benefit of details. Sometimes when people can see the benefit of asking better questions they are more likely to try and ask the questions better. Not universally true of course. 

I would say to those who answer questions; keep up the good work, take the thanks when it comes, try not to get offended when it doesn't. Know that your contributions are valuable, I am sure I speak for many who owe so much of what we know to you.


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## scottylad2 (Dec 15, 2010)

An indicator that a poster was new from the message board screen might help give a little more time, or patience maybe. 
there are other forums where your thread gets a halt on it if your description doesn't make the grade and I'd hope this forum never goes down that route. The whole idea of a forum is an idea/learning/discussion sharing community which lets us all tap into some of the greatest Excelers on the planet, where there is an abundance of assistance and wealth of knowledge given out free of charge and in most cases lightning quick time.

So even if the descriptions don't work for everyone all of the time, there's people on here that will still try and coax the correct question.....even if the poster doesn't properly know what they are looking for.


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## Joe4 (Dec 16, 2010)

As many of you know, this thread turned a bit ugly yesterday, so it was temporarily removed and sections of the thread were removed.  It has now been moved back.

However, I must again, point out this sticky here about posting in the Lounge here: http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=512003

Let's keep things civil and respectful of other users on this board, else it will be removed permanently.


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## Domski (Dec 16, 2010)

Nice spot of editing.

Group hug everyone and let's get back to being nice to everyone 

It is the season of good will after all!!!!

Dom


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## schielrn (Dec 16, 2010)

I haven't been around much in the past few months, but BOY has the lounge taken a spark of interest with all the topics.  Seems like things have gotten a little stricter on some senses, but I still like the laid back style of the board as well.



Domski said:


> I look first for unanswered threads, then bumped ones (one post with reply by OP). Lastly I'll have a browse through the rest to see who's replied, if it's one of the gurus I'll generally leave it be otherwise I might have a look to see if I can suggest anything. Other than that I'll have a browsed through threads to see what I can learn.
> 
> Dom


 
Like the unanswered posts, this should also be a shortcut or option to filter on. It could probablt replace the unanswered posts option because an unanswered post only contains:

Threads with only posts in it by the OP.

I once found a relatively simple solution for a problem, someone had bumped 3 times and it kept falling through the cracks and it wasn't necessarilly worded that bad either.


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## Joe4 (Dec 16, 2010)

> I haven't been around much in the past few months, but BOY has the lounge taken a spark of interest with all the topics. Seems like things have gotten a little stricter on some senses, but I still like the laid back style of the board as well.


The rules and Moderation enforcement has not changed. There just seem to be more instances of people attacking, belittling, or disrespecting others lately. We have never tolerated that.

Years ago, there was an original "Lounge" which was closed down because of that kind of behavior (which is why this is "Lounge 2.0"). So it is not a new problem.


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## diddi (Dec 16, 2010)

leaving it to the gurus is a great way to miss out on some really good hints. there are particular gurus whose posts i always look at just to see how they do things. sometimes i put in my 2-peneth worth, but often it is outside my skill set so its better to gracefully disappear without a post.

@mods
thanks for restoring this very engaging thread. it was such a shame to see censorship in the lounge (as was it a shame that censorship had to be invoked in the first place with this and another thread).


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## Jon von der Heyden (Dec 17, 2010)

It really is a pity when these threads go the wrong way.  I was especially disappointed when this one did, since the intention here is to discuss ways of making the forum experience more pleasant for newbies.  But over-all this post shows how passionate we all are about our forum, and how important the ethos of the board is to us.

But back on topic.  I had a chat with the forum mods and admin and they have given me the tumbs up to post this sticky, 'Help others by having a helpful signature'.  I see there are plenty of members that already have a helpful signature, but I hope this will encourange others to do the same.  I'm not suggesting that we all have the exact same signature, really this just exists for those that like this particular format.  I hope this goes some way to improve the quality of posts in our forums.


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## arkusM (Dec 17, 2010)

Jon one of your links reminded me that it would be nice to have a Google search box built right into the forum page, that would search this site only.

Not sure how muh of your soul you need to give to google in order to have this option, though I feel that google own more of me than I do.... (search engine, gmail, calander, picasa, reader.... yikes)


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## MrKowz (Dec 17, 2010)

Another thought is to make some small indication (different font color, small icon, or something similar) on a post if there has been a reply by an MVP. This can benefit the forums in two ways:


For people who are helpers, it gives us an idea where we can focus our attention, as MVPs more often than not are able to find a solid solution that is more effecient than a non-MVP. I know that for myself, if I go into a post and I see an MVP in there, I tend to leave it alone (unless I think I can provide a better solution)
For those who post, it allows them to search for a topic and get good answers (and explanations) easier by being able to narrow down the posts they look in to those that MVPs post in.
Maybe since an MVP has purple text as their name, make the "new post" icon a light purple for no replies since last visit, dark purple for new replies since last visit.

However, I do understand the other side of this idea. MVPs do not _always_ provide the most effecient, or "best" solutions; and many times the non-MVPs come up with outstanding solutions in posts that MVPs don't bother looking in. This would be up to the individual to ask themselves, "am I satisfied looking for just MVP solutions, or could there be something better out there"


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## VoG (Dec 17, 2010)

Sorry Keith but I disagree. For a start a new poster may well think that an MVP is a Member of Parliament in Venezuela. Also MVPs don't always offer the best solutions (generally they do but not always, at least as far as my postings are concerned). I also think that this would discourage non-MVPs from posting and could create an elitist atmosphere.

This type of discussion (to do with thread titles and so on) has arisen numerous times on another forum that I frequent (www.pcadvisor.co.uk) and despite posting forum rules and so on new posters just enter "Heeelp!" as their title and "Computer not working. Please offer fix. This is extremely urgent" as the body text. As Peter_SSs said earlier, I often find these the more interesting threads to read and possibly respond to.


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## Joe4 (Dec 17, 2010)

Yes, the thing to remember that a MrExcel MVP and a Microsoft MVP are two very different things.  A handful of us MrExcel MVPs are self-proclaimed glorified hacks (including yours truly!)

So some of my solutions may use brute force methods, while there may be other much more elegant solutions out there.  What I know, I typically know very well, but there are limits to my knowledge.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Dec 20, 2010)

arkusM said:


> Jon one of your links reminded me that it would be nice to have a Google search box built right into the forum page, that would search this site only.
> 
> Not sure how muh of your soul you need to give to google in order to have this option, though I feel that google own more of me than I do.... (search engine, gmail, calander, picasa, reader.... yikes)



You can build your own and it costs nothing.  In fact you can earn money from it if you have adsense.  Google Custom Search Engine here.

I have a google CSE on my website (about the only thing on my website that works).  It filters results to only the websites that I consider worth it.  But you can set one up yourself exactly the way you want it.


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## diddi (Dec 20, 2010)

google will take over the world.  look! they are taking over out personal web sites, and now we moot allowing them even more ad space on mrexcel.


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## Michael M (Dec 20, 2010)

Thanks JVH for the "extra" signature info.
After following this thread, this is one of the great ideas put forward....and implemented.
I've adapted my signature to suit.
I'm only a small player on the forum, but I noted Greg Truby mentioned that the "other language" forum gets very little traffic. A couple of times I've wanted to to suggest the OP tries that area of the forum, but some users get a little tetchy when you suggest they can't speak english, even when you have tried your best etiquette.
Maybe the other reason the "other language" area gets little use, is because of just that, it gets little use, therefore I won't get a quick response, when, in fact, it will probably get a quicker response due to lower traffic. This may be a good area to target !!
The passion raised during this thread is why we are all here, we all want to be, and we all want to play a part. I empathise with Domski....my first post would have been
"How do I add a whole column of numbers up, without resorting to the calculator"

Finally, thanks to all those "passionate" people, I am now the office guru, that practices the dark art of Excel.


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## Jon von der Heyden (Dec 21, 2010)

Hi Michael

Nice to see that you are using the signature, and nice to see that there are so many already using it.  I really hope it does make a noticable difference.

The 'Other Languages' forum is a tricky one.  Like you I might not refer someone there for fear of offending.  I suppose perhaps 1 or 2 people also see using the main forum as an opportunity to practise their English, and also want the wider audience in order to attract more suggestions.  I hardly ever browse the other languages forum.  I don't even go there to moderate because we have moderators that specificaly target that forum.  

I'm just not sure how one might go about promoting it more.  For starters I think it's perfectly located, since it is the forum directly beneath the main questions forum.


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## usc1000 (Dec 21, 2010)

Is it possible Mr Excel can make a video on Youtube about the proper way to post a question and have the link email to the person when he registers?
I would also think that if you add a section in your "message" box with a selection of programs they are using, such as Excel 2003, Excel 2007, or computer, Etc. so the poster can choose from, just like you have a section for the smilies, this way your moderators can see it right away. Plus have a video on how to use the functions here, in the message box, because I am also guilty of not knowing how to use them myself. Just I though. P.S. I love this site.


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## Colin Legg (Dec 21, 2010)

From a forum member perspective, I think the suggestion of a welcome tour/how to video from Bill has a lot of merit. It would be another feature which puts MrExcel above the rest (how many other boards have a video like that? none?) and it could be integrated into the registration process.

In addition to giving people a tour of the board and guidance, perhaps Bill could also point out the other resources available such as his podcasts, his consultancy, his books and any other sites he might own. 

However, Bill is a very busy man and no doubt there would be a cost associated with producing and streaming a video. The board owner perspective might be quite different!


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## Colin Legg (Dec 21, 2010)

Just to clarify, my suggestion supporting usc1000's idea about a video but for it to be hosted here rather than on YouTube.


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## MrKowz (Dec 21, 2010)

I support usc1000's idea as well.  It has great potential.  Playing the role of the devil's advocate here, quite a few of our posters post from their workplace, and a lot of workplaces I've been in greatly frown on watching any kind of video on the computer as it is often seen as a "leisure activity".  That might cause some posters to shy away from watching the video (so don't make it a mandatory watch).  However, for those that actually take the time, it could be very beneficial.


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## Colin Legg (Dec 21, 2010)

MrKowz said:


> ... Playing the role of the devil's advocate here, quite a few of our posters post from their workplace, and a lot of workplaces I've been in greatly frown on watching any kind of video on the computer as it is often seen as a "leisure activity". That might cause some posters to shy away from watching the video (so don't make it a mandatory watch).


 That's a good point. I guess it's possible that people might also not have the software to watch a video. That said, it's a "one off" when they register, so I'd be inclined to make it as "mandatory as possible". 

Another potential drawback might be if the vBulletin software is upgraded. If things move around a bit (say, for example, the places where you would click to start a new thread) then the video might have to be done again.


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## starl (Dec 21, 2010)

New members already get an email with a link to posting instructions. Also, there is a link at the bottom of the main page to a video.


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## Domski (Dec 21, 2010)

Maybe some of us need to sign up from scratch again and go though it properly this time 

Dom


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## starl (Dec 21, 2010)

Just checked. Looks like it got deleted during an update. Trying to fix. Will be awhile. Modifying the software is not easy.


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## Colin Legg (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks, Tracy. I just viewed the "how to register" video and there's definitely some overlap between its content and what was suggested on this thread.


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## starl (Dec 21, 2010)

The Action Required email already had a link to posting.
Welcome message now has link to posting AND link to video.


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## MrKowz (Dec 22, 2010)

With more of us using a signature similar (or identical) to the onw JVH posted, some of our users may visit the BBCode section to learn how to use BB Code more in depth (http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode).

Perhaps under the explanation of how to use tags to link directly to posts/post# ([/thread] and [/post]), it might be an idea to have those sample-links go to some important thread on the forums (like guidelines or tips) rather than some random poster's thread.

Just another small thing to possibly add to Starl's list!


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## MrKowz (Dec 22, 2010)

MrKowz said:


> What about an Excel-Questions FAQ? I can't count how many "multiple criteria count/sum" questions I come across, or how many "delete rows that meet x criteria".


 
I'm currently writing up a draft of something that could be used in this fashion.  Once I get it written up, I'll post it in this thread to get some feedback on if it could be a useful idea.  If so, provide feedback on where it can be improved before publishing.


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## MrKowz (Dec 22, 2010)

MrKowz said:


> I'm currently writing up a draft of something that could be used in this fashion. Once I get it written up, I'll post it in this thread to get some feedback on if it could be a useful idea. If so, provide feedback on where it can be improved before publishing.


 
I posted a draft writeup of counting multiple conditions in a new thread here since it applies to more than first-time posters and is likely going to be an entirely different discussion.


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## diddi (Dec 22, 2010)

not bragging... but Michael M shamed me into ammending my signature and today i saw this post:

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2552680&posted=1#post2552680


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## arkusM (Dec 23, 2010)

diddi said:


> not bragging... but Michael M shamed me into ammending my signature and today i saw this post:
> 
> http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2552680&posted=1#post2552680


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## Michael M (Dec 23, 2010)

Ahhh !!... the power I have over people...LOL !!
Have a safe and happy, Diddi......and dry, well dry weather anyway.


> ....but Michael M shamed me into ammending my signature and today i saw this post:


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## diddi (Dec 23, 2010)

Oh thx, michael M and likewise i hope that the growers up your way aren't completely broken by such a bad year after what looked like a beauty.


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